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Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#211

Post by leereeves »

ethbr1 wrote: post #205
mppm wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long-term -- yes; short and medium-term -- not necessarily. For example, during and after Covid, Germany had a very severe antibiotics shortage. I think it is still ongoing to some extent. On one hand, it seems ridiculous to suggest that Germany is incapable of producing all the antibiotics it needs. On the other hand, ramping up production that has been offshored is not that easy, and is a lot more expensive initial…

> On the other hand, ramping up production that has been offshored is not that easy, and is a lot more expensive initially. It depends on the nature of that particular good's production. Some industries are incredibly supply-chain and labor-intensive. Others are capital-intensive. Others may be knowledge-intensive. A country should seek to compete in industries it has the most core competencies in.

> A country should seek to compete in industries it has the most core competencies in.

While US policymakers were following that advice, China did the opposite. They decided what they wanted to compete in and built the core competencies they needed to do so.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#212

Post by _DeadFred_ »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #178
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy bad faith bs from someone who pretends they're a straight shooter. “...the death toll.” What a trash response to Americans suffering. So kind of you to volunteer that the poorest among us have nothing and should be happy about it. You admit this is a $4k hit that Congress didn’t pass. Guess after all your talk here, you don’t actually believe in the Constitution or separation of powers just “I should be able to…

Im not the one making the hyperbolic claim that a majority of households wont survive long.

Nah, you're just the one OK with Trump unilaterally imposing tariffs, something that the Constitution says only Congress can do. And like your failure to address that point in your response, caring about the Constitution isn't a thing to you.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#213

Post by s1artibartfast »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #212
s1artibartfast wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im not the one making the hyperbolic claim that a majority of households wont survive long.

Nah, you're just the one OK with Trump unilaterally imposing tariffs, something that the Constitution says only Congress can do. And like your failure to address that point in your response, caring about the Constitution isn't a thing to you.

I don't have to defend your baseless personal claims that have nothing to do with what I said. You can imagine whatever you want.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#214

Post by vitorgrs »

mppm wrote: post #152
bathtub365 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you mean by “the West” in this context. No one besides the US are unilaterally raising tariffs on China. The US stands alone in this and the rest of us are fine to keep trading with China while whatever agenda is being pursued by the US regime.

I'm just making a general point, since the trade between China and the EU is qualitatively similar to China-US. And while the EU is anti-Trump at the moment, I do not think it is beyond aggressive economic action against China for political reasons, if nothing else. (And let's not forget about the new tariffs on Chinese electric cars).

U.S is giving tariffs to everyone, though...

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#215

Post by bamboozled »

Aloisius wrote: post #175
bamboozled wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

specifically America’s chronic and ever-expanding trade deficit — says that America is the globe’s biggest trade loser and a victim of unfair, unbalanced, and nonreciprocal trade" Finally the source of “we’ve been treated unfairly” is revealed?

Eh. Not really. Trump has been espousing the same mercantilist zero-sum game view about trade since the 1980s. He simply picked an economic advisor who shares his views.

Well that's why I put a question mark on the end of my sentence :) Thanks.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#216

Post by ajross »

heisgone wrote: post #150
ajross wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, that is 100% a retconned explanation. No one anywhere was talking about this theory until the last week. It's clear that Trump demanded tariffs, tried to do it once early, and got cold feet. What happened with Lutnick et. al. is Court Politics. They saw an opening to improve their own status by selling a creative lie that would allow Trump to do what he wants. So he bought the lie and picked new favorites. But…

$9 trillion of government debt is maturing over the next year. That's around 25% of the US debt. https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-treasury-plays-cat-mou...

Right, that's the amount issued in short term bonds and whatnot. It cycles all the time. But again: it's maturing. You don't need to "refinance it", for the same reason you don't refinance a mortgage with only $6k principle left. There's no point, just pay it off and work on a new loan.

So the question becomes "can we get better rates for bonds?". And clearly the answer is hell no, because nothing in this mess makes US debt look more attractive to foreign investors. We're moving in the opposite direction from the way the cult expects things to go.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#217

Post by ASalazarMX »

mppm wrote: post #136

One thing that I'd like to inject into this discussion, is that the nominal trade imbalance is not the only relevant figure, and maybe not the most important one. For many goods, there is a very strong disconnect between the market value (the lowest price you can offer a group of suppliers competing against each other) and what one might call, for lack of a better word, true value (the price you'd be willing to pay i…

If there's lack of a better phrasing, I would rename "true" value as "maximum extraction" value.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#218

Post by snapplebobapple »

mppm wrote: post #136

One thing that I'd like to inject into this discussion, is that the nominal trade imbalance is not the only relevant figure, and maybe not the most important one. For many goods, there is a very strong disconnect between the market value (the lowest price you can offer a group of suppliers competing against each other) and what one might call, for lack of a better word, true value (the price you'd be willing to pay i…

I get what you're trying to say but I don't think it's couched in a way that is understandable to the average person. I think a more understandable way to put it is to point out USA will be ok on the very base things like food and energy (assuming they don't piss us Canadians off further) but China has competed to a almost nothing the next few rungs up the ladder to the point where production capacity outside China (and certainly within USA and the dwindling number of deeply friendly nations) is almost non existent. This includes very, very valuable things like chemical precursors and finished products in everything including biotech, building supplies, factory parts, etc. So a world where China walks away pretty quickly falls apart to a much lower standard of living for everyone in the west for a decade or possibly two. That world would be much blander food wise, much more exposed to the elements for many more of us and with much more death from treatable disease.

We have an opportunity here to rebuild the industrial capability and walk ourselves a bit further up the cost structure now with the help of having access to chinese output and what we are doing instead is pretty foolish.

That talk of what we pay vs what we would pay is being used in your argument to point out the pain of losing access to a cheap chinese product when it's more useful for antitrust discussion of where market power is being abused and instead just pointing out the direct pain of a china walking away situation in my opinion.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#219

Post by boxed »

rjtavares wrote: post #25
boxed wrote: post #10

How is it retaliation to destroy your own economy by making the same bad life choices? Isn't actual retaliation to just ignore the entire thing and thank the US for the extra percentage points in advantage you got for free?

You can't be bullied and not respond - that's an invite for future bullying. Besides, this isn't at all the same. China isn't adding tariffs on the whole world like the US are.

But it's not bullying. It's self harm. You don't respond to self harm by harming yourself.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#220

Post by boxed »

Spooky23 wrote: post #22
boxed wrote: post #10

How is it retaliation to destroy your own economy by making the same bad life choices? Isn't actual retaliation to just ignore the entire thing and thank the US for the extra percentage points in advantage you got for free?

It’s a war, man. You inflict pain on your enemy. Trump has a pattern of tucking tail when confronted.

But tariffs are a pain on YOURSELF. It's self harm.
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