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London's Heathrow Airport announces complete shutdown due to power outage

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Re: London's Heathrow Airport announces complete shutdown due to power outage

#211
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're all suddenly privy to highly classified information Its not highly classified. Its not even plain classified. Its available on streetmap. The substation (like most are) is located on the edge of a residential area / industrial estate. People walk and drive past it every day. Looking at streetmap, there's even a multiple big signs outside that says "North Hyde Substation". They don't even make any effort to hi…

The fact this substation exists, yes, obviously. The fact taking it out takes out the entire airport: not so much! These kind of things usually aren’t dependent on a single substation. The fact that it is, is not something the UK government would have liked to be made public.

> The fact taking it out takes out the entire airport: not so much! These kind of things usually aren’t dependent on a single substation.

Let me re-phrase that for you:

It only took down the airport because the airport clearly did insufficient capacity planning in terms of backup mechanisms.

How can I be so confident ?

Because that exact same substation serves a number of large datacentres in the vicinity.

Due to the grid constraints previously discussed here, many of those same datacentres take ALL their feeds (A,B,C etc.) off that one substation, the only difference is the cables are diversely routed. Not their choice, it was imposed on them by the grid.

They have ALL been without ANY electrical feeds all day. I know that for a fact.

HOWEVER, those same datacentres have been running non-stop like nothing happened. I know that for a fact.

Why, because they have N+1 generators (which are regularly tested) with at least 48 hours of fuel, which was topped up this morning as soon as it became clear it was a major incident and with multiple fuel deliveries already pre-scheduled from multiple independent suppliers. I know that for a fact.

The grid are of course very busy trying to work some magic to re-arrange things to get the datacentres back online. Meanwhile the datacentres are very happy to keep ticking away on generator power for as long as it takes, its not a problem for them, its an event they plan, prepare and practice for.

Heathrow could have done the same. They could have added generator plants here and there over the years when they re-built terminals and such like.

They didn't, or at least they didn't do so with sufficient capacity.

Maybe Heathrow also fell behind on their generator maintenance and testing regimes. Who knows...

There are people out there who say it is because their motto is "spend little, charge a lot", so they did de-minimis, prefering to focus on maximising revenue generating space. I could not possibly comment.

Re: London's Heathrow Airport announces complete shutdown due to power outage

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, clueless American here. I confess I have no idea how far apart things are in the UK. "Closer than in the US" is all I've got.

Ah, right! Here's an approximate comparison then, measuring from one of the terminus stations serving central London, according to railway timetable data: 0h 30m - Heathrow 1h 00m - Gatwick 1h 00m - Luton 1h 30m - Stansted 2h 30m - Manchester 3h 00m - Birmingham 3h 00m - Bristol 4h 00m - Cardiff Plus Channel Tunnel trains: 2h 00m - Brussels 4h 00m - Amsterdam Looks like I was wrong about Manchester being further than…

[deleted]

Re: London's Heathrow Airport announces complete shutdown due to power outage

#213
post #90

Well....I have a flight to LHR tomorrow morning, I'm guessing I should start looking at alternatives now :P

IANAL but, you should be in contact with your airline about your specific flight. You are entitled to be re-booked on the next available flight or get a refund. If you take a refund the airline has no obligation to you anymore. You might find after taking a refund, the price of an equivalent flight is now much more.

I know - but I'm going to a concert in London, if the flight isn't going at its original time then there's no point going. I'll just take a refund and drive instead, but so far it looks like flights will operate as normal tomorrow.

Re: London's Heathrow Airport announces complete shutdown due to power outage

#214
post #189

It's not the first time a major airport is down because of power failure, and other airports are working to address this type of vulnerability. > The power vulnerability for airports was never made more obvious and painful than in Atlanta seven years ago. An underground electrical system fire in late 2017 damaged two substations and caused a complete outage lasting nearly 12 hours at Hartsfield-Jackson International…

Heathrow's power outage is much worse than Atlanta's, this is really bad. Allow me to make my point: 1. UK’s has one major airport to get out of the country—Heathrow. Gatwick and that lot don’t carry the same weight. When Heathrow goes down, you’re proper stuck. Atlanta has DC, Miami right there. 2. UK allows transit visas, so half the people transiting can’t even step out the terminal, what do they do when the airpo…

This is laughably poor geography.

Both Gatwick [0] and Stansted are busier than either Washington airport [1], and if you're considering Miami as an alternative to Atlanta then why not similarly ridiculous options like Paris, Amsterdam, Dublin for passengers stuck in Heathrow?

Miami and DC aren't even close to the nearest major airport cities to Atlanta. Charlotte and Orlando are many hours closer and busier [1] in terms of commercial passengers (though still not as convenient as the UK's comparable airports).

Only about a quarter of Heathrow passengers are transiting [2] and a significant portion of those are citizens of the US, EU, UK and other countries who don't need a visa. Maybe 10% of passengers are stuck in limbo, not half of them.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_airports_in_...

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports...

[2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/303939/flight-transfers-...

Re: London's Heathrow Airport announces complete shutdown due to power outage

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

slang for "of course"

Natch, I feared as much. I've been seeing it more and more lately. I've found it's hard for me to look at. I'd say more but I'm already wasting words.

> I'd say more but I'm already wasting words.

ofc

Re: London's Heathrow Airport announces complete shutdown due to power outage

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory yes, but we were specifically talking about driving. And whilst 6 hours CDG to LHR is possible in theory (and I've done it a number of times), it does depend on a whole load of other factors that are not present compared to hiring a car at US airport 1 and driving to US airport 2. Unless you're in the movie Planes, Trains and Automobiles.

I brought up driving to illustrate the incorrectness of the original claim, the person I replied to did not mention driving. The person you replied to is correct to bring up the EuroStar option. By the way, the snide remarks you add to the end to each of your comments may be better suited for a place like Reddit or TruthSocial. The community standards guidelines for HN can be found at the bottom of the page.

I was replying to "It is a six hour drive from Heathrow to Paris."

I live close enough to LHR to notice the replacement of Boeing/Airbus with Cessna/Pipers from local airfields in the sky today. I also regularly drive to and/from Paris.

It is a six hour drive. But ONLY if you have your car ready, have booked a crossing ahead of time (otherwise you might want to slap another half day on those times), make no stops, you don't end up in a queue at UK customs (1 hour+ not infrequent occurrance). Don't happen to have your car sitting at CDG waiting for you? You'll have to hire one, but you'll be unlikely to be able to take that to the UK so you're then finding somewhere to drop that off and somehow cross as a foot passenger which you can't do on Le Shuttle...

Point being, cross-border travel throws up all of these hurdles which you simply don't have in the US example.

Re: London's Heathrow Airport announces complete shutdown due to power outage

#217

This is way worse due to London airports' lack of spare capacity. They should have built Thames Estuary Airport a long time ago.

What I don't get is that the government now says it wants a 3rd runway (this has been debated for 30 years). Why add a 3rd runway, costing billions and taking decades, to an airport that can't use it 24-7 due to noise restrictions, and doesn't even have resilient power from the grid. Heathrow should have been bulldozed years ago and replaced with housing, and the estuary airport built. Or the Maplin Sands project 50…

Adding a runway to an existing airport is relatively low risk and comparatively cheaper than building a new major airport altogether. Anyone considering the latter will surely look at the Berlin Brandenburg Airport [0], which ran roughly €4 billion over budget and opened nine years behind schedule. Given the dire financial situation of the United Kingdom right now, I would wager this is an incredibly hard sell.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport

Re: London's Heathrow Airport announces complete shutdown due to power outage

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

slang for "of course"

Natch, I feared as much. I've been seeing it more and more lately. I've found it's hard for me to look at. I'd say more but I'm already wasting words.

It's quite old, I'm surprised you're only seeing it now
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