So let's get this straight. People are tweeting that they're going to protest somewhere. But when cops see these tweets, that "surveillance".
Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
211–220 of 265 posts
Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
#212Here's an interesting thought about how preferential surveillance can lead to repression even when it's public and not itself acted on: 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy). 2. However, people who are being watched will be caught more often. 3. The end result is that people in the "wrong" crowd on average are punished mo…
> Here's an interesting thought about how preferential surveillance can lead to repression even when it's public and not itself acted on:
> 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy).
> 2. However, people who are being watched will be caught more often.
> 3. The end result is that people in the "wrong" crowd on average are punished more than people in the "right" one at an equal level of misbehavior.
Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
#213It is not "surveillance" when the cops see your tweets.
I think the idea of no expectation of privacy in public places crashes with the ever increasing capabilities of law enforcement and companies to register your activities and views.
What is now registered with digital dragnets that can be queried at any time is what would require actual man-hours 50 years ago for just following one person.
Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> Please do not insult colonialism by comparing it with Zionism My language was intentional and precise. I didn't say "colonialism" (which I'm not defending BTW). I said "settler colonialism" [1], which is precisely what has gone on here. From the Nakba to the 1967 war to the West Bank settlers, you have over 75 years of ethnic cleansing and displacement. That's ettler colonialism. I can't speak to whatever colonial…
Weren't the Jews ethnically cleansed from the West Bank in 1948/1949? Isn't the return of Jews to the West Bank in 1967 the undoing of ethnic cleansing?
Honest question, not trolling. I assume that you see the situation differently, I'd love to understand your viewpoint if you care to explain it.
Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, that is your opinion and not a cite. In fact, the government can regulate your walking with cross walks and traffic lights. Again, why are the police in this case monitoring constitutionally protected activity? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech , or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to a…
You keep repeating "constitutionally protected activity" like it carries more weight the more you repeat. The Intercept article does the same thing. If we step back and look at what's happening at "pro palestine" protests across the world, much of it is toxic and unwelcome by the wider community. Law enforcement sees the negative energy and responds using passive tracking tools and other measures. They're seeing esca…
Law enforcement sees the negative energy and responds
Typically, in sane societies, it's preferable that the coercive part of state power is deployed for things more concrete and definable than 'negative energy'.
Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, that is your opinion and not a cite. In fact, the government can regulate your walking with cross walks and traffic lights. Again, why are the police in this case monitoring constitutionally protected activity? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech , or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to a…
You're just wrong. There's a whole line of cases about this. Walkers and strollers and wanderers may be going to or coming from a burglary. Loafers or loiterers may be "casing" a place for a holdup. Letting one's wife support him is an intra-family matter, and normally of no concern to the police. Yet it may, of course, be the setting for numerous crimes. The difficulty is that these activities are historically part…
A legal cite, please. Yes, I know about the loitering case, Chicago v. Morales; it was struck down on vagueness.
But again, why are the police in this case monitoring a constitutionally protected activity?
Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
#217So let's get this straight. People are tweeting that they're going to protest somewhere. But when cops see these tweets, that "surveillance".
That's an oversimplification, it's when cops start keeping track on people based on such data, plus analyzing their behavior as a group.
Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
#218Here's an interesting thought about how preferential surveillance can lead to repression even when it's public and not itself acted on: 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy). 2. However, people who are being watched will be caught more often. 3. The end result is that people in the "wrong" crowd on average are punished mo…
> Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate Do you have data backing this claim? For example, homicides (that are not a subject for reporting bias) don’t follow a uniform distribution, so I would expect other crimes to also be non-uniform.
> Do you have data backing this claim? For example, homicides (that are not a subject for reporting bias) don’t follow a uniform distribution, so I would expect other crimes to also be non-uniform.
Crime rates are likely different for different socioeconomic classes for many reasons, but also the socioeconomic class likely determines in part the types of crimes.
For example, poor people are more likely to do petty crime and physical crimes, while rich people tend to do complex frauds involving large sums.
So you cannot compare rates for one particular crime across socioeconomic groups because they will gravitate towards the opportunities that are present to their class.
Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suppose the implication could be that the set petty crimes and code violations, which includes many things, among which are parking violations and music piracy (two things that vary dramatically between demographics), has an equal distribution between all demographics. If parking violations are an old demographic problem, and music piracy are a young demographic problem for example (even though it is assumed that m…
See NYC's recent law changes to legalize jaywalking. I won't pull up the exact citations but there were evenly distributed tendencies to jaywalk yet something like 80-90% of police engagements were with PoC
I am not disputing that, the comment I replied to assumed that offenses were not evenly distributed because two of the examples in the set of petty crimes was not evenly distributed offenses by demographic.
Note that this is commission of offense as opposed to say police activity around offense, which is a different thing, as you note with your jaywalking example.
Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests
#220Is this really surprising to anyone? If you're out in public and using public websites to organize protests, it's a given that data will be mined about that. The trick is to make it unattractive for those doing the enforcing to act upon their analysis of that data.
This is surprising. Why are the police monitoring constitutionally protected activity?
Because it involves gatherings of large crowds in public spaces. It is their job to make sure that such gatherings result in no harm of either the protesters nor the local community.