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The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

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Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#211
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find fun these "generalizations". Like: "Eggs are fine". If you are a 50kg person that eats 20 eggs for breakfast each day I doubt it would be fine. We would need something like LD50, or even better a range over a period (eggs are mostly fine if you eat between 2 and 5 per week)

It's a fine generalisation because it's assumed that people eat 1-2 eggs for breakfast, not 20. "Something like LD50" can't help because it is literally another generalisation that may not apply to you personally: eggs are mostly fine unless you have an eggs allergy or problems with cholesterol or whatnot.

At least at US restaurants, a "small" omelette is three eggs and larger ones more, though. And likewise for servings of scrambled eggs. Pretty much the only case where 1 or 2 eggs are the norm is when ordering fried eggs (and those are generally accompanied by bacon, potatoes, toast, etc.)

Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#212
post #162
post #161

> ordered breakfast: scrambled eggs back in the days when people ate eggs, and, more recently, banana and granola with skim milk. It's funny how much life cycles. I do kinda remember a phase where people were eating a "healthier" breakfast of some kind of fruit, and when granola became popular, and when milk fat was considered the worst thing you could do to your body. But now eggs are fine, again. Great, even.

I was immediately struck by this remark too. Were eggs particularly unfashionable in the early 1990s in the USA? Apparently so.

Simpsons did it

https://youtu.be/AHAFMFFQlkI

Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its not even the buying vs renting thing, renting is bad, you don't get to own anything at the end of the journey let's say you are an investor (crypto and day trading, living at home rent free in your parents' basement: "more tendies mom!") but alongside your crypto and day trading, you scrape together enough cash to buy a house as an investment. it's an investment, you rent it out and earn rental income. What's r…

Is this sarcasm? Because this entire story is predicated on the fact that while you’re renting the home you bought you’re living somewhere else and that somewhere else is either something you’re renting or something someone else has bought and you’re living in there rent free.

I don't think it's sarcasm, just poorly explained. Owning a house serves two distinct purposes - as a home or as an investment. Despite what a lot of people think, it can't be both at once.

As an investment, you forego some upfront capital (downpayment), have some monthly costs (mortgage payment) and a monthly income (rent) and at the end you have an asset (current value) and maybe an obligation to pay another lump sum (principal - downpayment if interest only mortgage).

In the UK at least, for buy-to-let properties, the interest-only mortgage is common, so at the end of the mortgage term you have to repay the principal, and the profit comes from the different between the current value and the principal. In most situations, the rental income is almost entirely used to cover the mortgage payments, maintenance, costs, and paying tax, so during the mortgage period most landlords actually make very little income. It's essentially a bet on whether over the term (maybe 20 years), the difference in value will be better than the lost opportunity cost of not investing the downpayment elsewhere and the risk of periods of having to cover the mortgage and expenses without income during periods when the house is unoccupied, or tenants refuse to pay, etc. Particularly in the early years, the rental income may be substantially lower than the costs to the landlord, but over time, inflation will allow rental prices to increase but the mortgage costs will remain level. A smart landlord will invest the monthly profit at that point, to reduce the impact of the principal at the end of the mortgage.

In some ways, a house bought as a home is very similar, but in others very different. Typically bought as a home, a mortgage will be higher because the aim is usually to pay off all the principal as well as interest, and the simplistic view is that obviously having a mortgage for your home is better because you're always paying off the capital and end up with an asset at the end, the GP's point is that it isn't actually that simple.

Let's say you lived in the house. You're paying for the mortgage directly, let's assume that on average the mortgage costs are the same as the rent for an equivalent house, but actually at the start, the mortgage is probably going to be a significantly bigger chunk of your monthly expenses. On top of that, you have all the maintenance costs - some will be urgent and necessary, others can be deferred for later (although financially, perhaps not the best option because inflation will make the cost more or less the same now as later).

If you had the same house as a buy-to-rent property, you'd have the same maintenance costs and the same mortgage costs (whether it's interest only or capital repayment, the main difference is just when you pay it), so really the only difference is that you are receiving a rental income and losing the ability to live in the house.

As such, there is actually an equivalence between having a mortgage on a house that you live in and paying rent for that house instead - and the equivalent amount is the amount that you would have received as rent (minus taxes and costs from renting). If you could have rented that property out at £1000 per month, by choosing to live there, you are effectively paying that £1000 a month rent yourself.

In truth, the main factor in choosing whether to rent or get a mortgage is a mixture of availability and cost of credit (which varies depending on your financial situation) and how much you have available to spend on accommodation each month. Having a mortgage front-loads the payments - having a much higher payments initially, but fixed so that as inflation reduces the monthly cost in real terms, much cheaper later on, compared to renting where there is effectively a constant monthly cost in real terms once inflation is applied to it (probably annually, every time the price is renegotiated).

Personally, I'd chose a mortgage, because I was chose a cheap house compared to the area so that I was able to afford the monthly payment (the base mortgage was approximately 50% more than the equivalent rent would have been), and then used every bit of spare money I had each month to overpay, which meant that I paid off the house before the end of the mortgage term.

You might think that paying off the mortgage is an obvious success - I now own a house I can live in rent-free, but the alternative - paying much less each month and investing the rest, with compounding gains would probably be returning me an income that's equivalent to the rent that I would be continuing to pay if I didn't have a house.

Which one is better is down to personal preference, and also quite heavily influenced by societal norms - in the UK and USA, we're very strong believers in owning property, but in much of Europe, the vast majority of people rent and see no problem with that.

Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're more likely to die in a traffic accident or from insufficient sun exposure than to ever develop skin cancer. In your neck of the woods maybe. This is not accurate everywhere. It’s the complete opposite where I live.

Which is where?

Australia. We have the highest rates of skin cancer in the world due to high UV levels.

“Skin cancer causes more deaths than transport accidents every year in Australia.”

I can’t leave the house for more than like five minutes for big chunks for at least half the year without having to smother myself in sunscreen so for large parts of the year I just don’t go outside during like 9AM-6PM.

I fell asleep once in the car with the window open by mistake, I was out for like 45 minutes. A decade later that arm is still an entirely different color to my other one. Wild, one of the worst burns I’ve ever had.

edit

And to think, that’s die from a skin cancer, not merely develop it. So it actually blows that claim out of the water for Australia by a way larger margin than I initially thought.

2 out of 3 Australians will develop skin cancer in their lifetime.

Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#215
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're relying on a typical misunderstanding of the past. The increases in life expectancy in modern times are owed almost exclusively to reductions in childhood mortality, not actual extensions of life. In the past it's not like people just hit 40 years old and keeled over. So for instance the Founding Fathers died at an average age of 72 including things like Hamilton being killed in a duel at 47 years old. Only 2…

Your 'Founding Fathers' only lived a few hundred years ago, not thousands of years ago, and were elites in one of the richest societies in the world at the time. I wouldn't use the bible as evidence; from what I heard they also talk about people living hundreds of years in that book, don't they? I agree that most of medicine itself hasn't necessarily made much of a dent in average adult life expectancy at, say, age 3…

Germ theory didn't exist, or at least wasn't accepted, until the late 19th century. In fact even things like handwashing before surgery weren't accepted until a similar timeline. Prior to that it would have been insulting to insinuate that a surgeons hand's might be 'unclean.' All the money in the world couldn't change this lack of knowledge. And indeed one of the Founding Fathers, George Washington, was likely killed more by the bleeding edge treatment of the day, than the disease that was being treated. In response to a throat infection he was bled for nearly 5 pints in order to remove 'bad blood.' His deathbed portraits showed him as white as a ghost.

You're right we don't need to have as many children per person thanks to reduced infant mortality. Each and every woman having an average of 2.1 children is all that's required for a stable population. So each family that can/does have children should probably have somewhere between 2 and 5 to compensate for those who will not or cannot.

And indeed we do need to start relatively early. By the time a woman reaches her 40s her fertility (assuming a perfectly timed effort) is going to be around 5-10% per month. When she's younger that can be > 30%. And in between each child you really want at least 9 months before starting on the next, a bit more is even better. And then you need to actually succeed at pregnancy. Contrary to popular conception things like IVF are not just guaranteed pregnancy. They're an extremely expensive roll of the dice. The dice are more weighted in your favor, but the odds of success can still be quite low for older parents. So perhaps 2-3 years per child, increasing with age, multiplied by 2-5 children. That's a lot of years and you want to finish this all up before your 40s if possible.

And most importantly of all - this isn't an option. Societies that fail to maintain themselves will simply die off and end up being replaced. Much of what I'm saying here runs face first into contemporary ideological ideals, but the reality of what I'm saying will win simply because contemporary ideals are not self sustaining.

Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is where?

Australia. We have the highest rates of skin cancer in the world due to high UV levels. “Skin cancer causes more deaths than transport accidents every year in Australia.” I can’t leave the house for more than like five minutes for big chunks for at least half the year without having to smother myself in sunscreen so for large parts of the year I just don’t go outside during like 9AM-6PM. I fell asleep once in the car…

Thank you for sharing! Yeah, the thinner ozone layer there does sound like it makes things worse, especially for people with more European ancestry.

What a great big world we live on!

Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia. We have the highest rates of skin cancer in the world due to high UV levels. “Skin cancer causes more deaths than transport accidents every year in Australia.” I can’t leave the house for more than like five minutes for big chunks for at least half the year without having to smother myself in sunscreen so for large parts of the year I just don’t go outside during like 9AM-6PM. I fell asleep once in the car…

Thank you for sharing! Yeah, the thinner ozone layer there does sound like it makes things worse, especially for people with more European ancestry. What a great big world we live on!

Yeah, one of the things I loved about Europe was being able to go outside on a lark without worrying that if I wasn’t watching my watch that I’d burn to an absolute crisp. I miss that :/

Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fine generalisation because it's assumed that people eat 1-2 eggs for breakfast, not 20. "Something like LD50" can't help because it is literally another generalisation that may not apply to you personally: eggs are mostly fine unless you have an eggs allergy or problems with cholesterol or whatnot.

At least at US restaurants, a "small" omelette is three eggs and larger ones more, though. And likewise for servings of scrambled eggs. Pretty much the only case where 1 or 2 eggs are the norm is when ordering fried eggs (and those are generally accompanied by bacon, potatoes, toast, etc.)

That doesn’t really change the point though.

There might be longterm malnutrition problems if you’re solely eating eggs in mass quantities (since 20 eggs for a 50 kilo person would be hitting near your daily caloric intake just in eggs), but for most people this isn’t a concern.

Having 5 eggs for breakfast (not as an omelette, which obviously has other stuff in it) every day would probably improve most people’s health.

Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#219
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course when they bought their house it would have cost mere 10s of thousands. You can see why there's an attraction to owning your own house.

Owning a home is always good no matter what the finance influencers tell you. In fact, earlier the better. Its not even the buying vs renting thing, renting is bad, you don't get to own anything at the end of the journey, and often the kind of things you have to put up with to save rent, or avoid getting homeless in case of of a job loss or other life crisis is just worth your mental health. Most of your life is spen…

> Get disappointed and lawyer through the arguments to justify renting a home.

As opposed to just flatly stating that owning a home is always good and dismissing any opposition out of hand as “lawyering”?

Here’s my first attempt to lawyer: I don’t want to live in a house. Is owning a house always good for me?

Re: The man who spent forty-two years at the Beverly Hills Hotel pool (1993)

#220
post #205
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite limited view thats valid in certain times in certain cases, in certain countries etc. What about drawbacks of owning a house? You will spend non-trivial amount of your time, energy and money just to keep it up, keep fixing all things that deteriorate. And everything deteriorates. I mean really non-trivial, count how much your hourly rate is and how much you will waste instead of making some fun good activities,…

>>You will spend non-trivial amount of your time, energy and money just to keep it up To up keep your home! You also pretty much up keep your rented home too. And at the end you spend to maintain other people's home. >>Is that really how you want to spend some part of your me-time? Most of the times its not that bad, you talk like you are on-call 24x7 throughout the year. >>You are also locking yourself down at very…

lol lets just say we disagree on practically everything :) to each their own

Just one point - there is no way ownership of some home brings actual happiness, you overload the term massively. Not only some theory, I simply never met such a person so that this would be actually valid. I've lived in 3 different cultures and talk about 100s of folks knowing well personally.

Although I've met quite a few folks that, by chasing the dream of some home in suburbs 'to have their own place' ruined their marriage often beyond repair, including happy childhood of their kids.

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