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Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

marcan.st

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Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#211

Post by unethical_ban »

yencabulator wrote: post #178
unethical_ban wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not claim a background in Linux kernel internals. I'm a human who has seen teams miscommunicate in the past, and see it now. I'm not sure what I said that drew hostility. It sounds like you agree with me though. The Linux team needs to clearly define the expectation they have for code maintenance from the team trying to upstream Rust code (edit) and the Asahi team needs to acknowledge how/if they can meet those…

Well, stop accusing people who's work you don't know of being wishy-washy. The challenge is not dictating from high above some criteria; the challenge is discovering the criteria that will let the Linux project continue development as well as can be arranged. This is why you'll hear Linus say it's a learning experience, and not just make proclamation of how things shall be (at this stage).

I don't think it's reasonable to read my original comment as an "accusation". I said "it sounds like" as part of a casual conversation about the subject. There was no hostility in my comment.

Would you say that the Asahi team wasn't receptive to the pace at which the needed criteria were being developed?

My point is that between these two groups there seems to be a misunderstanding of expectations. And being the upstream org, and not having read every mailing list thread, I would expect the kernel team to have built a framework for accepting this kind of code. Or a framework for building the framework.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#212

Post by xyzsparetimexyz »

lenova wrote: post #140

This part of the post is being overlooked: Then 2024 happened. Last year was incredibly tumultuous for me due to personal reasons which I won’t go into detail about. Suffice it to say, I ended up traveling for most of the year, all the while having to handle various abusers and stalkers who harassed and attacked me and my family (and continue to do so). This is _not_ ok in any form, what the actual hell?

It's hard to know what he exactly means by this. It sounds pretty bad but this guy does seem to attract and develop a fair bit of drama and this could be a bit exaggerated from the truth.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#213

Post by LinXitoW »

cogman10 wrote: post #35
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"spreading awareness about a position" isn't a very accurate way to describe what happened. This is the guy who said he wanted to use social media to create a "hall of shame" for kernel developers. Of course Linus told him to knock it off, that's ridiculously unprofessional behavior.

Yup, I think it went too far. The fact is, you need buy in from other devs and if a dev won't buy in you need to work out a way to avoid them or avoid conflict. It sucks, it slows things down, but frankly making it a "them vs us" is a sure fire way to make them oppose any change you want to make. Public shaming even more disastrous as there's no better way to entrench someone in a position.

But the point is that the Rust developers have tried literally everything else.

If the C developers make it a "Them vs Us" thing, there IS NO ALTERNATIVE for the Rust developers.

Linus' reaction is quite literally the equivalent of a parent only punishing the loudest child, not the child that's been silently bullying that kid for months.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#214

Post by ThatGuyRaion »

stirlo wrote: post #205
ThatGuyRaion wrote: post #187

Marcan brings up plenty of good points regarding contributing to kernel.org being stuck in the 1990s. However, he's got no social skills nor does he have what it takes to man up and understand he won't get his way. Additionally I doubt that he really is dealing with stalkers to the degree that he is implying; real people don't talk about their stalkers so much. When I was stalked and harassed I kept the details light…

I don't doubt him about the stalking problem (by online trolls, not necessarily IRL). He was a prominent voice in the trans supporter community and was regularly attacked by Kiwifarms.

Well, if anyone broke the law or harmed him he needs to go to law enforcement or the FBI. Outside of that, just get used to be thrown abuse of all kinds. If you get tagged by a group like that the more you talk about them the more you give them ammo.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#216

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

cogman10 wrote: post #196
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are relying heavily on mesa Isn't mesa portable? Or are there parts that are OS-specific? > With android, they'd also still have GNU stuff available. I don't follow; Android is a non-GNU Linux distro. Or do you mean that being on Linux makes GNU stuff easy? (But then, GNU runs happily on BSDs and other unix-likes)

> Isn't mesa portable? Or are there parts that are OS-specific? IDK. I'm not familiar with mesa enough to know how portable it is. That said, I do know that it's primarily deployed on linux. An issue with portability is simply that when big projects like mesa are developed, non-linux environments are rarely developed (No clue, for example, if you can build mesa for BSD). > Or do you mean that being on Linux makes GNU…

Mesa:

There are official freebsd packages of mesa: https://ports.freebsd.org/cgi/ports.cgi?query=mesa-&stype=al...

In fact, https://doc.redox-os.org/book/graphics-windowing.html seems to imply that redox is or plans to use mesa.

Android:

Okay, that's fair; termux already proved that GNU on Android is viable.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#217

Post by fzeroracer »

echelon wrote: post #56
sphars wrote: post #6

See also the response from the Asahi team: https://asahilinux.org/2025/02/passing-the-torch/

At the top of the page: > Hi! It looks like you might have come from Hacker News. > Asahi Linux developers are frequent targets of abuse on Hacker News. Despite our pleas, the moderators have not taken effective action to improve the situation. > Overtly hateful content is often flagged on HN and not immediately visible. Unfortunately, when a comment is flagged and killed, its child subthread is not. That preserves t…

How does asking for flag-killing a post to also disable replies in the thread equate to extreme moderation of opinions they disagree with?

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#218

Post by kayodelycaon »

School-Cotton wrote: post #176
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I wonder if this is a good time for people to reconsider what they actually want out of Asahi. Things that I'm sure are on the list are open source, able to run the tools they want (standard gnu userland?), docker, maybe gnome/kde? I am not convinced that the linux kernel specifically is on that list.

Tons of dev workflows nowadays use docker which in practice means they require Linux.

Docker works fine on macOS today. But it was definitely bad before they fixed the host file system integration. And by bad, I mean really bad.

At this point, it’s really about what trade-off you’re willing to make. Do you want a better graphical interface or better docker integration?

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