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JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#211

Post by mike_hearn »

mavamaarten wrote: post #151
rhubarbtree wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No complaints on my MacBook Air M2. What machine are you on? It’s definitely not as fast to load etc as say sublime, but it’s an IDE not an editor.

Well.. I'm running it on an M3 and it can be truly slow. Not always! But opening up a package inside a multi-module Kotlin project can literally take 10 seconds. Which isn't much seeing how great of an IDE it is and how much time it saves because it is so powerful. But it's heavy alright. Every time I see new features I don't really use, I wish they would invest in trimming fat instead.

There's something really not right there. Right click the bottom right status bar area, enable memory monitor and ensure you aren't running out of RAM or something. I use IntelliJ on an old Intel MacBook with a large Kotlin project and its performance is good. I never have to wait ten seconds for something like that. It sounds like you may have some old flag that's limiting its heap size or pushing it into GC thrashing or something. Definitely look at the IDE logs and see if you can track it down.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#212

Post by dehrmann »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

In my first job, I used C, vi, and cscope. In my second, Java and Eclipse. I was an order of magnitude more productive with an IDE. Some of it was the language (though I was actually pretty good at C and rusty at Java), but most of it came from the rapid feedback loop and improved code discoverability.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#213

Post by doublepg23 »

anoother wrote: post #159
bayindirh wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately many new developers don't believe in powerful "power" tools anymore. They like to connect many small tools for an inferior experience and they just scoff at bigger tools for being "too complicated". I use another big tool which is around 20 years old, and that can do everything and a ton more from a single screen at the same speed or faster, with greater integration. Yet people don't touch it because it…

What's the tool?

OP

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#214

Post by mike_hearn »

toprerules wrote: post #192
sfn42 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using the ram for something else? Would you prefer to have 30 out of 32gb sitting unused? Ram is cheap, I don't see why people complain that it's being utilized. Doesn't bother me at all. I haven't looked into it but I would assume you can disable these unnecessary plugins if you don't want them?

It sounds like your perception of how a computer works is incredibly flawed. ram doesn't sit unused , the kernel uses it for caching and locality. The more RAM you give the kernel, the more you can have resident in the slab cache, the page cache, the filesystem cache, the network backlog, etc. Even on very large machines with more RAM than an average desktop, the kernel can still make use of almost all of it. I work…

You're both right. The issue here is that both the JVM and the kernel use algorithms that can use all your RAM to speed things up, and there's no good way to know which side should 'win' (to get the best performance).

Historically the JVM will happily use all your RAM even if it doesn't need to, because that reduces the amount of GC work required which increases CPU time available to the IDE for analysis and other tasks. It can be told there's a limits, in which case it'll spend more time GCing to stay under it.

Modern JVMs changed this old default and will wait until the app is idle then start reclaiming memory and releasing it back to the OS. I guess it depends what you mean by "mid sized" but 10GB is quite a bit. It'd be worth checking that everything is running on a recent JVM. Gradle in particular can be a hog if you run it on old JVMs.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#215

Post by Nullabillity »

ernst_klim wrote: post #173
bayindirh wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately many new developers don't believe in powerful "power" tools anymore. They like to connect many small tools for an inferior experience and they just scoff at bigger tools for being "too complicated". I use another big tool which is around 20 years old, and that can do everything and a ton more from a single screen at the same speed or faster, with greater integration. Yet people don't touch it because it…

> Unfortunately many new developers don't believe in powerful "power" tools anymore. I have to use IntelliJ due to Kotlin codebase, but I'm still more of a fun of Emacs and I don't like Idea that much. I think IDEs somewhat lack the power that simpler tools have, which is automation. One thing I miss from IntelliJ is programmability. That's why I still use Emacs on workplace for anything outside of Kotlin (git, grepp…

Also, IdeaVim is just awful compared to Evil.

- Tracks the mode globally (rather than per editor), and treats mode-switching as an edit operation (so if you accidentally enter a read-only tab in insert mode then you need to switch to another tab, escape, and then go back to get your keybinds back.

- Doesn't bind escape in sidebar dialogs, so trying to exit insert mode in a terminal or commit dialog just defocuses the sidebar instead

- Still applies its other binds, so even falling back to CUA/IntelliJ keybinds doesn't work either!

- Makes no effort to integrate IntelliJ keybinds, all you get for conflicts is "would you like to lose the Vim or IntelliJ functionality that binds this key?"

The difference is stark when you compare it to something like Evil that actually values the user experience. (How's that for an irony?)

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#216

Post by giancarlostoro »

alde wrote: post #142
hadrien01 wrote: post #16

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I talked to a Jetbrains representative at a conference about this. They said Fleet was/is an experiment in the realtime collaboration tech, which really bloomed during Covid. They said it is no longer seen as a good direction internally, so not to expect much. Maybe things have changed since then, no idea.

That's a shame to hear, I really would love something like Fleet from them where I dont have to install the umpteenth IDE flavor, or use one of their plugins with an IDE built around something else entirely.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#217

Post by dehrmann »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #185
rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

Their tools are fantastic and worth the $$ and having worked in the profession for 25 years I have little patience for the variety of elitism I often encounter on jobs that goes along the line of: "I just use vim and (by implication) so should you." JetBrains has always had issues with performance and slightly clunky UI. But in return there's just a pile of amazing refactoring and analysis tools that nobody else offe…

> elitism I often encounter on jobs that goes along the line of: "I just use vim and (by implication) so should you."

This always felt to me like an old-school woodworker saying you can do a large project with hand tools.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#218

Post by malkia »

LeFrosch wrote: post #110
malkia wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks!!! I also saw your other post about C# - maybe one day JetBrains would change their mind! I'm trying latest IDEA (2025.1 EAP) and for the first time a bazel project that I have got parsed successfully (had to enable some old legacy flag though), so there is hope!

Did you use the google plugin or the new BSP based one by JetBrains?

Over the years I've tried both the google plugin, and now the BSP one.

Mixed results. Almost always works on Linux/OSX, but my dominant platform is Windows.

Yesterday tried it again (BSP one) with IDEA 21.5 EAP with nightly on the plugins, and things got synced, but was not able to find any targets (they are C++ targets), funny it found and listed a "filegroup"

But I have my hopes up, the BSP looks like it's doing the right thing discovering much faster the targets, and probably needs more work just to finish all edge cases (like mine - Windows).

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#219

Post by John23832 »

Decabytes wrote: post #180

I personally find value in having two editors. A light editor like Emacs for writing Markdown, git, quick scripts, and a JetBrains IDE for longer running projects, and debugging. I don't feel the need to wholly replace one with the other

Same. I basically run a Cursor/RustRover combo. I think the RR tooling is second to none.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#220

Post by barrenko »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

Does this apply to Fleet as well?
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