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It's not a crime if we do it with an app

pluralistic.net

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Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#211

Post by FrustratedMonky »

constantcrying wrote: post #103

What a terrible article. The title and the first paragraph talk about how new business models are circumventing existing laws, which seems fair enough and actually quite an interesting subject. Then, there is a switch to the most traditional of businesses with the most traditional business models. Who, the author argues, are engaging in price gauging. In the second paragraph he claims that apps cause this inflation (…

Perhaps if there was a tighter line pointing at corporations using 'apps'.

Traditional rental property corporations, were pre-existing, and also adopted the use of an 'app' that allowed them to raise prices over the inflation rate.

So, traditional corps, taking advantage of the new 'app-crime-for-free' model.

But really, where the logic broke down a little. Was all those 'crime-apps' are actually reducing prices for most part. So should help inflation not hurt it.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#212

Post by ruds »

stickfigure wrote: post #152
gmueckl wrote: post #76

This is all a result of a lack of active market regulation. The government needs to step in actively to keep a free market from collapsing into one of the natural end states. But the US has consistently been far too passive and accepts greedy companies far too readily. If a single company can sell almost 100% of an essential good, they need to atomatically lose the power to set their prices and margins independently.…

[flagged]

Antitrust suits were filed against these four companies in November, alleging that they conspired to fix prices: https://archive.is/fp44d

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#213

Post by pwg »

notTooFarGone wrote: post #189
layer8 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I’m sympathetic to the sentiment, I don’t see how “sending shareholders to jail” could possibly work, given how many people own shares. It’s like your dog would be collectively owned by a million people. Maybe you mean the board?

"Shareholder" are not people who own a stock in robin hood. It's large players with board positions who reap the benefits and turn a blind eye to blatant corruption.

> "Shareholder" are not people who own a stock in robin hood.

If you own even a fraction of a share of a business (say IBM), you are, by definition, a "shareholder" in that business. It does not matter if it is via the RobinHood app., or a JP Morgan Chase Premier Brokerage Account.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#215

Post by philosopher1234 »

gruez wrote: post #201
regularization wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's because most crimes "individuals" do are straightforwardly illegal and easy to prosecute, whereas the "crime if a corporation does it" are not. I Yes, but why are individual crimes easy to prosecute and corporate crimes not. These are not things that just popped into being like a thunderstorm. They are a part of an economic and social system that makes things in such way.

> They are a part of an economic and social system that makes things in such way If you're trying to imply such crimes are hard to prosecute because The Powers That Be™ deliberately made it that, how does that explain the difficulty in prosecuting long firm fraud (and other white collar crimes)? You can argue that price fixing being hard to prosecute helps "corporate America" or whatever, but basically everyone is un…

The thing to look for would be the way that making long firm fraud easy to prosecute would lead to companies being accountable for things they don’t want to be accountable for.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#216

Post by RobotToaster »

hermannj314 wrote: post #32

This is the way our world works. If you steal a potato, you will be arrested immediately and the case will be resolved in a few weeks or months. If you illegally fix the price of potatoes and steal billions from the market, you will be allowed to operate for years in the open while a lengthy civil procedure eventually may ask you to give 1 or 2% of what you stole back in fines. Don't blame the potato theives or potat…

They hang the man and flog the woman

That steal the goose from off the common,

But let the greater villain loose

That steals the common from the goose.

The law demands that we atone

When we take things we do not own

But leaves the lords and ladies fine

Who take things that are yours and mine.

The poor and wretched don’t escape

If they conspire the law to break;

This must be so but they endure

Those who conspire to make the law.

The law locks up the man or woman

Who steals the goose from off the common’

And geese will still a common lack

Till they go and steal it back.

English nursery rhyme, circa 1700.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#217

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #201
regularization wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's because most crimes "individuals" do are straightforwardly illegal and easy to prosecute, whereas the "crime if a corporation does it" are not. I Yes, but why are individual crimes easy to prosecute and corporate crimes not. These are not things that just popped into being like a thunderstorm. They are a part of an economic and social system that makes things in such way.

> They are a part of an economic and social system that makes things in such way If you're trying to imply such crimes are hard to prosecute because The Powers That Be™ deliberately made it that, how does that explain the difficulty in prosecuting long firm fraud (and other white collar crimes)? You can argue that price fixing being hard to prosecute helps "corporate America" or whatever, but basically everyone is un…

[deleted]

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#218

Post by scarface_74 »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #77
ryandrake wrote: post #17

More like "It's not a crime if a corporation does it." The US treats corporations with kid gloves. They get away with so much, and in those rare cases where a regulatory body does anything , it's often just a strongly worded letter, a warning, a threat to one day send a strongly worded letter, or, in really rare, extreme cases, a company official gets called in to say a few words in front of Congress. Nobody goes to…

We need to start seizing IP into the public domain and sending shareholders to jail when their companies misbehave. I'm on the hook if my dog bites somebody, it should be no different if the role of my dog is played by a company. Monetary risk is not a real enough risk.

So should every one who owns stock in a company - including mutual funds go to jail?

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#219

Post by vladms »

regularization wrote: post #176
gruez wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Contrast that to how individuals get the hammer put down on them by the justice system if they so much as fart in the wrong room. The lesson from the last 50 years should be: If you want to commit a crime and get away with it, do it as a corporation. That's because most crimes "individuals" do are straightforwardly illegal and easy to prosecute, whereas the "crime if a corporation does it" are not. It's not any diff…

> That's because most crimes "individuals" do are straightforwardly illegal and easy to prosecute, whereas the "crime if a corporation does it" are not. I Yes, but why are individual crimes easy to prosecute and corporate crimes not. These are not things that just popped into being like a thunderstorm. They are a part of an economic and social system that makes things in such way.

For lots of problems the boring answer is: because there is no easy solution. For me as a software developer, I can imagine a lawyer asking "but why are there so many bugs in applications?".

Would we be able to have a world in which there are almost no bugs? Yes, definitely. Would that be a better world?... I tend to say no. Because we trade more bugs for faster development. Because not all bugs are critical. Because some requirements are not completely consistent. And other reasons.

I imagine it's the same with the law. That is not to say there are no improvements to be made, but unless multiple people with lots of experience in the field come and say "this would be better with no side effects" I would be cautious.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#220

Post by bongodongobob »

gruez wrote: post #157
ryandrake wrote: post #17

More like "It's not a crime if a corporation does it." The US treats corporations with kid gloves. They get away with so much, and in those rare cases where a regulatory body does anything , it's often just a strongly worded letter, a warning, a threat to one day send a strongly worded letter, or, in really rare, extreme cases, a company official gets called in to say a few words in front of Congress. Nobody goes to…

>Contrast that to how individuals get the hammer put down on them by the justice system if they so much as fart in the wrong room. The lesson from the last 50 years should be: If you want to commit a crime and get away with it, do it as a corporation. That's because most crimes "individuals" do are straightforwardly illegal and easy to prosecute, whereas the "crime if a corporation does it" are not. It's not any diff…

That's like saying "you can tell this is an Aspen by the way it is". The idea is that we should have control over those laws dude. We didn't just spawn in a video game and are forced to deal with it. "Cause that's what Dad says" isn't how it's supposed to be.
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