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Updates to H-1B

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Re: Updates to H-1B

#211

Post by LPisGood »

sunshowers wrote: post #198
Spivak wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this whole issue could be solved short order if we agreed that not being able to find qualified applicants at a given fixed price does not a shortage make. It's the same with the "fast food shortage," I bet the shortage would dry up real fast at $50/hr so all we're really doing is haggling over price. If in order to hire a H1-B at a salary of x you had to offer US workers 2x with say a $100k floor on x th…

[flagged]

It seems to me that there is a dichotomy between that or allowing companies to continue to snub US workers for vulnerable foreign labor.

Maybe you could escape the dichotomy by requiring H1-B workers to be in the 5% paid employees at a company or something.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#212

Post by rbanffy »

strongpigeon wrote: post #112
crmd wrote: post #68

It’s never been clear to me why this program exists in the first place, other than to put downward pressure on US STEM wages. What am I missing?

It's enabling companies to bring highly skilled individuals to work in the USA rather than having them open offices in other countries.

For the “highly skilled” there’s the O-1 visa.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#213

Post by bradlys »

BeetleB wrote: post #126
crmd wrote: post #68

It’s never been clear to me why this program exists in the first place, other than to put downward pressure on US STEM wages. What am I missing?

Software is one of the few STEM fields where one can get a fantastic job with just a Bachelor's. In most other engineering fields, a MS gives you a significant boost, and a PhD may do so as well. The reality is that in most of those fields, few Americans get an MS/PhD. Go to a typical engineering department and you'll often see the majority of advanced degree students are foreigners. So it's a question of: Do we want…

Isn't it well known that the main reason that most foreigners have advanced degrees is because that's how they get into the country legally in the first place?

I don't see many people getting employed straight out of undergrad from India or China and moving to the US directly. They get their advanced degree here first to get into the country then they get employed...

Re: Updates to H-1B

#214

Post by sunshowers »

LPisGood wrote: post #211
sunshowers wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It seems to me that there is a dichotomy between that or allowing companies to continue to snub US workers for vulnerable foreign labor. Maybe you could escape the dichotomy by requiring H1-B workers to be in the 5% paid employees at a company or something.

No, what needs to happen is to give workers mobility. H1B workers are preferentially hired at some firms because of their lack of mobility — they're easier to abuse than other workers. Addressing that would let everyone be on an equal footing and share the benefits of agglomeration (immigration increases supply and demand!) It would also be far more just and equitable.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#215

Post by bradlys »

ritcgab wrote: post #89
hgs3 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's supply and demand economics: if there is a low supply of workers and a high demand for them, then employers are supposed to compete for them with more pay, more benefits, training/education, etc. When the supply of workers is artificially increased, then companies have less incentive to compete. It becomes a buyer's market for employers.

> if there is a low supply of workers and a high demand for them Employers outsource all those works to overseas.

They've said this for decades and SV engineers still pulling down $500k+/yr while someone in Hyderabad isn't making anywhere close to that.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#216

Post by chabons »

remarkEon wrote: post #202
kqgnkqgn wrote: post #120

Seem like sensible changes, though more is still needed. Requiring H1B holders to leave the country to renew paperwork is an insane anachronism. The per-country caps also seem like a throwback to the early 1900's era immigration exclusion policies. Re: the concerns over "immigrants taking our jobs!". As a native-born American working in a large tech company today - the threat is very clearly not from H1B's and other…

>It's much much better for America if tech companies hire workers in the US, regardless of whether they are citizens. Americans are eligible for those jobs, and that money stays within our economy. Versus employing workers elsewhere, where American's can't easily be hired, and those resources leave the US. I want to pick on this point, because it's the general refrain about this topic. If there is some thing that Ame…

I don't have statistics, but given the student visa -> H-1B pipeline changes, it would seem there are a number of H-1B holders who are educated in US colleges (either at the undergrad or graduate level). This indicates that the problem is not entirely a training gap.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#217

Post by dingnuts »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #168
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

There is a shortage of applicants willing to work at what companies want to pay. If it is taking more than 30-60 days for workers to find a role, there are enough workers domestically.

> There is a shortage of applicants willing to work at what companies want to pay

Translation: companies would rather have underpaid immigrants as indentured servants to exploit than Americans who can demand higher wages

Re: Updates to H-1B

#218

Post by Glyptodon »

BeetleB wrote: post #128
happytoexplain wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By offering wages appropriate for the economy your fellow citizens are accustomed to, as opposed to the economy citizens of other nations are accustomed to.

Already done. I mean, you didn't provide details/data, so I don't know what you have in mind. The rules require you pay prevalent wages for the geo you're in.

Saw a university (like 7 years ago) H1B'ing postdocs for like $30k, maybe $35k a year, by valuing the benefits at like $20k. It was kind of a joke IMO.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#219

Post by BeetleB »

bradlys wrote: post #213
BeetleB wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software is one of the few STEM fields where one can get a fantastic job with just a Bachelor's. In most other engineering fields, a MS gives you a significant boost, and a PhD may do so as well. The reality is that in most of those fields, few Americans get an MS/PhD. Go to a typical engineering department and you'll often see the majority of advanced degree students are foreigners. So it's a question of: Do we want…

Isn't it well known that the main reason that most foreigners have advanced degrees is because that's how they get into the country legally in the first place? I don't see many people getting employed straight out of undergrad from India or China and moving to the US directly. They get their advanced degree here first to get into the country then they get employed...

> Isn't it well known that the main reason that most foreigners have advanced degrees is because that's how they get into the country legally in the first place?

Yes, and ...?

I mean, if it were a requirement to start a business and employ 10 Americans gainfully, would you go and say "Yeah, but the reason so many foreign born people do that is so they can get in legally."

So?

As long as they have higher level training than most Americans, and as long as we spend money training them (via research/teaching grants), isn't it a good idea to keep them?

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