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Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

archaeologymag.com

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Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#211

Post by stvltvs »

xwkd wrote: post #201
cogman10 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data over dogma is a pretty good podcast about Christianity and Judaism. It's mostly about taking Bible stories and putting them into their historic context with the best evidence we have. It's not about converting, just covering the history.

Produced by a Mormon whose dissertation was supervised by an atheist Professor of the Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion. This may be a data point in favor of the trustworthiness of the podcast, or it may be an argument against, depending on your own personal point of view.

As long as the approach is rigorous scholarship in good faith (is it?), it shouldn't matter too much.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#212

Post by svieira »

blueshoe14 wrote: post #179
svieira wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Prayer means several things - "I then prayed my friend that he would accompany me on my trip to Italy" does not mean that you worshiped your friend. Mary (and all the saints) are prayed to in that intercessory way, not in the worshipful way that we pray to God. The man at the Beautiful Gate asked Peter for charity and Peter gave him the ability to walk, not by his own power by by the power of Jesus (Acts 3:2-6). A…

Did you mean 1 Timothy 2.1?

Yes, I did, apologies!

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#213

Post by janjongboom »

loudmax wrote: post #79
bjackman wrote: post #28

I find it pretty cool how the spread of Christianity can be tracked so finely that a 50 update in earliest arrival time is exciting! I started listening to a podcast called "the history of the early church" to learn a bit more about that but unfortunately I think the target audience was Christians interested in theology rather than nerds interested in history. Recommendations for books etc are welcome!

The Centre Place youtube channel has some pretty good lectures, including some very good lectures on Judaism and early Christianity: https://www.youtube.com/@centre-place/playlists The videos are presented by a pastor of the Community of Christ church in Toronto, but they're from a historical rather than religious perspective.

Seconding this - absolutely terrific content.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#214

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

zen928 wrote: post #196
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #68

> dates back to approximately 230-270 CE The nerve to use "Common Era" when specifically talking about the spread of christianity.

I can't even begin to tell you how hard I unexpectedly laughed at your comment denoting a perceived lack of respect using an extremely commonly accepted scientific dating measurement. Nothing negative noted about any other piece, just a single cherry picked highlight to allow you to demonstrate socially acceptable puritan outrage when given the chance, even on something as insignificant as following common scientific…

I had to faintly smile at „scientific dating measurement“. God bless you.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#215

Post by ARandomerDude »

marky1991 wrote: post #206
ARandomerDude wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed except for this comment. > parts of the ceremonial law are still valid Westminster Confession 19.3: “All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the new testament.” The reason the ceremonial law is abrogated is because it pointed forward to Christ who was to come. But since Christ has come, retaining the ceremonial law is tantamount to denying Christ (see full text of WCF 19.3 and book of Hebrews). If y…

Interesting, the confession considers 'remember the sabbath' to be 'moral law', not ceremonial, also 19.3 . Thanks for the reminder!

Exactly right. One way to know the Sabbath is moral rather than ceremonial is the Sabbath was established in Genesis 2:1-3. That means the Sabbath pre-dates the Law, and even pre-dates sin. So Adam and Eve would have kept the Sabbath before the Fall, and so would have all their posterity if they had never fallen.

As confirmation of that idea, Exodus 20:11 states that the reason God gives the fourth commandment is because the Sabbath is a creation ordinance, and by implication is therefore moral.

I hope that helps! God bless.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#216

Post by mensetmanusman »

sorokod wrote: post #181
mensetmanusman wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This arises from a confusion of multiplication 1x1x1 with addition 1+1+1 in the abstraction of facets of truth.

A neat analogy but aren't those 1s actually distinct from each other in your religion?

Is there more than one way to reference the same truth?

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#217

Post by margalabargala »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #182
abrenuntio wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, he lived in Turkey around the late third-early fourth century.

Pretty sure he lived in Anatolia or the Roman empire. There was no 'Turkey' to live in around the late third century.

He can't have lived in the Roman Empire, because those are words written in English, a language that didn't exist back then.

What's that? You meant, he lived within the bounds of the region that we call one thing, but would have been something else contemporaneously, but both refer to the same geographical location? Great, we agree he lived in Turkey.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#218

Post by dismalaf »

kamikazeturtles wrote: post #61
Hilift wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the more interesting developments occurred after the fall of the western Roman empire. The eastern empire (Constantinople) had frequent arguments and disputes with the west over nearly everything, including Christianity. The eastern Orthodox church refers to itself as the "Catholic Church" in internal documents. After the west fell in 476, they continued to present themselves as "the" Catholic church, which w…

Did the fact that Christians from Western Europe looted Constantinople in 1200 play a role in the Eastern Roman Empire's decision to stop identifying themselves as part of the Catholic Church, or were there already deep theological and political divides?

Both churches have always identified themselves as "Catholic", or universal in the Greek language (katholikos). Orthodox Churches still use the creed in every service, where they say "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church".

Also, it's not like the Roman Catholics claim to be heterodox or something, they also claim that their faith is "orthodox".

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#219

Post by sb057 »

gostsamo wrote: post #74
kamikazeturtles wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the fact that Christians from Western Europe looted Constantinople in 1200 play a role in the Eastern Roman Empire's decision to stop identifying themselves as part of the Catholic Church, or were there already deep theological and political divides?

The schism was in 1053

It's actually not quite so clear cut. 1053/1054 was when mutual excommunications between Rome and Constantinople happened, but (as the schism itself is evidence of) Constantinople did not speak for the entire church, and other eastern sees continued communion with Rome for quite some time afterward.

https://kalebatlantaprime.medium.com/the-great-schism-was-in...

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#220

Post by madars »

abrenuntio wrote: post #111
emmelaich wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, this has changed a lot. Catholic churches built in the last 50 years are far more austere than those built earlier.

It's a catastrophe, not just esthetically but spiritually as well. It has nothing to do with austerity or wealth. Some of the churches no longer seek to express holiness ("having been set aside for God") and support the numinous and eternal nature of the divine liturgy that takes place in them. One of the most breathtaking pictures I've ever seen in this regard is of Mass in a German church completely destroyed durin…

Exactly. Sacred architecture flows necessarily from essence (what church is) through substance (can't be accident or easy-to-vary) into form (matter receiving truth). Regrettably, accidents get commonly confused for substance like mistaking material poverty for spiritual authenticity, or adorning for corruption. Poor churches in middle ages still had a golden chalice (for literal God), cruciform layout (or other hard-to-vary forms in orthodox churches), eastern orientation, and an elevated altar. Why would a church built in A.D. 2024 have less?
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