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FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

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Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#211

Post by alistairSH »

reaperducer wrote: post #169
alistairSH wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes let’s keep a shitty UX for most users because of a few abnormal users. Be honest, frequent travel and shopping over VPN is an edge case here. The vast majority of users are shopping and buying from home with a VPN. Or better yet, give municipalities an incentive to stop layering a kinds of taxes. Just have a VAT and be done with it.

Be honest, frequent travel and shopping over VPN is an edge case here. Everyone is an edge case in some form. You, included. Just have a VAT and be done with it. This just illustrates that you don't understand the that taxes have multiple purposes, and why taxes are the way they are. Attend a few city council meetings.

I understand why we levy taxes. I’m not a moron (or a jerk). Other countries manage with a much simpler tax scheme; we can try and do the same.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#212

Post by mulmen »

websap wrote: post #200
mulmen wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So currently they correctly advertise the pre-tax price but since that’s not the correct total price your proposal is to display an approximate price which is also not the correct total price. I don’t see how this reduces ambiguity.

A higher price is more accurate than the pretax price

> A higher price is more accurate than the pretax price

Well, no, it isn’t. Consider the Oregon/Washington border. An IP could bounce around there. Oregon has zero sales tax so the pre-tax price is literally correct for Oregon residents. Adding estimated tax will be less accurate.

Similarly I could live in unincorporated King County such as White Center and not be subject to Seattle tax while still being subject to King County and Washington tax even though the other side of the street is Seattle.

There’s a sugary drink tax in Seattle. The border is Roxbury. There’s a 7/11 on Roxbury in White Center. Should a 7/11 sandwich board on the Seattle side of the street across from that 7/11 advertise the price with or without that tax?

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#213

Post by joecool1029 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #182
breadwinner wrote: post #140

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that? Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait…

Of course it's controversial. They do this to increase profits. A certain portion of the population is pro-profit at virtually any cost. It might seem like Dish employees wake up every day and say, "What can we do today to screw our customers even more?" But usually they're just trying to find ways to make more money.

> It might seem like Dish employees wake up every day and say, "What can we do today to screw our customers even more?"

Shit flows downhill. Their owner, Charlie Ergan, wakes up every day thinking of new ways to defraud the government with DISH and Echostar: https://nypost.com/2024/03/22/us-news/doj-moved-to-dismiss-3...

I usually complain about his spectrum squatting with DISH, but there's so much more if you dig a little.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#214

Post by maccard »

bluGill wrote: post #129
cyberax wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A business already has to take care of the sales tax. So they can just show it on the price tag.

No they cannot. Taxes are not uniform. Walmart probably won't deal with this, but in many states business (read farmers) do not pay sales tax on some items (read likely to be used on a farm) and so stores that want to sell to business will have the ability to verify you are a business to give that discount. It is worse for online where until you log in they have no clue what taxes will apply. If you are buying a gift…

> but in many states business (read farmers) do not pay sales tax on some items (read likely to be used on a farm)

The legislation in most of europe clearly handles this - the price displayed is for the intended customer. If you go into B&Q (home depot equivalent), you'll see prices including sales tax. If you go next door to a timber merchant none of the prices have sales tax included. If you're a business, you don't pay the sales tax. The businesses know what their taxes are, and are required to have accurate accounts anyway. For those that are maybe numerically challenged - they'll never pay more than they see on the sticker.

> It is worse for online where until you log in they have no clue what taxes will apply.

Enter your shipping address to see pricing. Exactly the same as it is now. Give an estimate based on IP. Exactly how it works in Europe, which has the same problem.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#215

Post by jopsen »

drdec wrote: post #13
guidedlight wrote: post #10

They should ban hidden taxes too. The sticker price should be the final price.

Do you want to put in your shipping address to every website before you can shop?

When shopping physically that shouldn't be necessary. Should it?

But I guess that would outside FTC jurisdiction?

Most online shops have a good estimate of your location based on IP. And already use it to estimate shopping costs, right?

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#216

Post by tokioyoyo »

mulmen wrote: post #155
tokioyoyo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It somehow works almost anywhere outside of NA? It's really not a crazy concept - estimate it based on geolocation and say "more exact will be available once you enter your address". The problem is, that genuinely negatively affect the sales because people see the true price of things.

> It somehow works almost anywhere outside of NA? Is North America unique in allowing local municipalities to set their own taxes? > It's really not a crazy concept - estimate it based on geolocation and say "more exact will be available once you enter your address". That’s exactly what happens now, except the advertised price is actually correct instead of an “estimate”. I have an intuitive sense for local tax. How…

Out of my head, if I recall correctly, Australia, Japan, Denmark do local municipal taxes as well (some are more flat than others).

Anyways, all I was saying that it's a solved UX problem, and the reason why you're not getting full price is because A/B testing has shown that when customers see the complete price, they get a shock and less likely to buy the item. This doesn't have much to do with websites caring about some edge cases that they'll somehow won't be able to give out exact price to you. In the worst case, the shopping websites could ask you to enter your postal code and show all prices with the tax included price.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#217

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

robotfelix wrote: post #201
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember shopping in Japan. The price on the tag, is exactly what you pay (same with services, like hotels). Since this is Japan, it's a high price, but no surprises. Also, the service is amazing , and they won't accept tips. If you leave money on the table, they will chase after you, to give it back.

I'm not sure Japan is the best example here. My experience is that most shops have the price excluding consumption tax printed very prominently in large numbers, and then price including consumption tax is printed in much smaller writing underneath. The price excluding tax is the only one you can read at a distance, that draws you in. As someone from the UK who is used to seeing price tags show the final price you pa…

I have a feeling that's optional. It may even be regional. My experience was almost exclusively Tokyo.

I traveled to Tokyo for over 20 years, and always paid what was on the sticker.

I was told that the tax was included in the price.

I remember one of my bigger purchases, was a ¥75,000 Oceanus watch, and that was exactly what I paid.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#219

Post by ssl-3 »

trustinmenowpls wrote: post #127

I need this for my internet provider, advertised price is $25* ** *** Network access fee: $2.65 Municipal upgrade fee: $16.30 Fees end up costing nearly 80% of the entire bill. There are no taxes or gov surcharges of any kind. *(with autopay discount) **(with autopay direct deposit discount) ***(will not be reflected on first 3 bills) ETA: here's their current promotion: https://i.imgur.com/TfwsdQv.png $20 for servic…

Well, at least we're now in a modern enlightened time when there's a standard FCC-required Broadband Facts "label" that can be referred to. It does make it easier to compare.

It still seems kind of new and I can't find one for Spectrum (my ISP) or I'd share it here myself, but: I pay exactly $59.95 per month, as the service is advertised in my area, and that's that. There are no itemized fees/taxes on my bill.

I don't remember the last time I had an ISP with weird fees associated with it -- it seems like it has had to have been around a decade now, at least.

(Cellular, too: My cheapskate all-you-can-eat cellular service costs me $35 per month, flat -- to the penny.)

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#220

Post by tokioyoyo »

websap wrote: post #166
tokioyoyo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It somehow works almost anywhere outside of NA? It's really not a crazy concept - estimate it based on geolocation and say "more exact will be available once you enter your address". The problem is, that genuinely negatively affect the sales because people see the true price of things.

I've been working at FAANG for the past 10 years, so this made me absolutely chuckle! I can totally image a PM somewhere calculate the negative bps for this and call the experiment a failure!

Yeah, I totally get you! I've done exactly this work for semi-B2B company where it clearly showed the sticker price effect and we ended up removing the taxes from it. Unless it's legislated, it's obvious the way the companies will go.
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