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Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

nytimes.com

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Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#211

Post by tptacek »

bdangubic wrote: post #209
tptacek wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exactly the same logic. You can't just take your own set of issues, say you're obviously right about everything, and then factor out everybody else's big issues. If you make a consequentialist argument for murdering insurance executives, other people do in fact get to use the same moral logic to stop things you disagree with them about, like gender-affirming care and abortion.

being directly responsible for someone’s death is just not the same as having a difference of an opinion (like we are having). I will definitely not try and hunt you down… however, if you are responsible for a death of my loved one - that might be another story… jokes aside, I am not saying this tragedy was justified in any way but we are not talking here about “opinions” and “religion” for sure

Sure. Again: if you just hate the guy and have no compunctions about saying why after he's murdered, then whatever, that's not interesting enough to argue about. But if you're literally saying "this was good and more like this would be better" --- and some people are --- that is a notably warped proposition.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#212

Post by bdangubic »

emeril wrote: post #205
s1artibartfast wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think it counts for something good. I think it is giving in to one of the worst possible aspects of humanity. Like people cheering at a lynching.

I suppose though if one of my children grows up to be a CEO of a place like UHC, I'd consider myself to have failed as a parent and would disown them

if they are that successful to make it to a point where they can be hired to be CEO of UHC or Monsanto or other axis of pure evil, perhaps they would choose to take their talents elsewhere

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#214

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

tptacek wrote: post #90
WorldWideWebb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accurate. They are literally middle men taking a cut without offering anything to the process. Switch to single payer, dump the middlemen, and have our taxes pay for essential services (keeping us alive and healthy). Seems simple enough but…

But literally every state in the country disagrees with you and so it's not going to happen.

Most Americans support a public option, which is the transition step toward a healthcare system that more closely aligns with other first world nations.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#215

Post by tptacek »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #214
tptacek wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But literally every state in the country disagrees with you and so it's not going to happen.

Most Americans support a public option, which is the transition step toward a healthcare system that more closely aligns with other first world nations.

Only in the abstract. When you work out a concrete proposal that involves people paying for programs, support evaporates.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#216

Post by lantry »

tptacek wrote: post #201
CamperBob2 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I look, I can find pie charts demonstrating that the Moderna COVID vaccine provides 8 dB worse 5G reception than the Pfizer shot. So, yeah, you'll have to do a little better than that.

No, I don't.

You can't come to the conversation with "everyone else is being unreasonable" and then not cite your sources.

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#217

Post by vundercind »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #131
s1artibartfast wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont find the "lack of sympathy" to be an issue. What I do find disappointing is the lack of concern over people being gunned down in the street, and the not so subtle glee some people are expressing. Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. It isn't healthy for a society and doesn't lead to progress.

> Murder should not be normalized or endorsed. It isn't healthy for a society and doesn't lead to progress. I guess the American revolution didn't lead to progress then. Or any of the other revolutions, many of which had assassinations. And murder is not being endorsed. Putting an end to it is.

This is one of those things we state as a normative absolute in general society and you usually only see the nuance (or how it’s basically just a polite lie, in some cases) in relevant college classes or spaces dominated by certain kinds of professionals and nerds (the kind who took those college classes, usually).

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#218

Post by justinclift »

tptacek wrote: post #211
bdangubic wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

being directly responsible for someone’s death is just not the same as having a difference of an opinion (like we are having). I will definitely not try and hunt you down… however, if you are responsible for a death of my loved one - that might be another story… jokes aside, I am not saying this tragedy was justified in any way but we are not talking here about “opinions” and “religion” for sure

Sure. Again: if you just hate the guy and have no compunctions about saying why after he's murdered, then whatever, that's not interesting enough to argue about. But if you're literally saying "this was good and more like this would be better" --- and some people are --- that is a notably warped proposition.

People make excuses for these CEO's using the same logic though don't they?

At what point is defending their murdering of people an acceptable approach? :)

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#219

Post by tptacek »

lantry wrote: post #216
tptacek wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't.

You can't come to the conversation with "everyone else is being unreasonable" and then not cite your sources.

If what I was backing with "pie charts" was "everyone else is being unreasonable", sure, but that's not what I said. Go look it up. Zero out all insurer costs. What percentage of health care costs do we save?

Re: Torrent of Hate for Health Insurance Industry Follows CEO's Killing

#220

Post by tptacek »

justinclift wrote: post #218
tptacek wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Again: if you just hate the guy and have no compunctions about saying why after he's murdered, then whatever, that's not interesting enough to argue about. But if you're literally saying "this was good and more like this would be better" --- and some people are --- that is a notably warped proposition.

People make excuses for these CEO's using the same logic though don't they? At what point is defending their murdering of people an acceptable approach? :)

By that logic, every health system in the entire world is murdering people constantly. Meanwhile: I'm talking about a guy walking up to an executive and shooting him in the chest.
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