Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws • Hacker News Board

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#211

Post by MarcoZavala » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:25 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #201

nomilk wrote: post #175

Every single Australian 's ID will have to be verified (in order to confirm their age). Depending on the degree of cooperation (/coercion) the Australian government has with social media companies, the Aus Govt will be able to access citizen social media data with relative ease. So no more pseudo anonymous accounts (or, at least, they'll be made more difficult, especially for non-technical folk). Reminds of the 'chil…

> My personal hunch is legacy media is largely driving this The level of conspiracy theory about the “mainstream media” feels out of control at times. Legacy media’s control over the population is already gone (as you stated), with what leverage would they be forcing this? Occam’s Razor: voters are genuinely concerned about the effect social media is having on kids. As a parent I hear about these concerns a lot. That…

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Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#212

Post by hbn » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:25 PM UTC

_hyn3 wrote: post #154

ocschwar wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly I want Australia to go ahead with this law so the rest of us can have a test case for it. If it works well we can copy it with tweaks. If not, then we know to seek other options.

What is the acceptance criteria for this test case?

Government dissent is successfully abolished from social media (the real reason for wanting to abolish anonymity via gov't ID requirements)

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#213

Post by pimterry » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:26 PM UTC

nomilk wrote: post #175

Every single Australian 's ID will have to be verified (in order to confirm their age). Depending on the degree of cooperation (/coercion) the Australian government has with social media companies, the Aus Govt will be able to access citizen social media data with relative ease. So no more pseudo anonymous accounts (or, at least, they'll be made more difficult, especially for non-technical folk). Reminds of the 'chil…

> Every single Australian's ID will have to be verified (in order to confirm their age). > > Depending on the degree of cooperation (/coercion) the Australian government has with social media companies, the Aus Govt will be able to access citizen social media data with relative ease. So no more pseudo anonymous accounts (or, at least, they'll be made more difficult, especially for non-technical folk).

This isn't a given. It is quite possible to build a reasonably anonymous system to verify age at signup.

As a simplified model: the government creates a website where with your government id/login, they will give you an age-verification-valid-for-5-minutes token - basically just "holder is 16+" signed with their signature & the current time. Websites request a new valid token at signup. End result is that government only knows you're _maybe_ doing _something_ 16+, and the website doesn't know who you are, just that you're old enough (this is clearly improveable, it's just a basic example).

Whether anything like this will be implemented is a hard question of course. The current alternatives I've seen seem to be a fully privatised version of this, where a private company has a video call where you hold up your ID - that eliminates the government, but seems like a whole bunch of privacy concerns in itself too (not to mention being wildly inefficient & probably not very reliable).

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#214

Post by nomilk » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:26 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #201

nomilk wrote: post #175

Every single Australian 's ID will have to be verified (in order to confirm their age). Depending on the degree of cooperation (/coercion) the Australian government has with social media companies, the Aus Govt will be able to access citizen social media data with relative ease. So no more pseudo anonymous accounts (or, at least, they'll be made more difficult, especially for non-technical folk). Reminds of the 'chil…

> My personal hunch is legacy media is largely driving this The level of conspiracy theory about the “mainstream media” feels out of control at times. Legacy media’s control over the population is already gone (as you stated), with what leverage would they be forcing this? Occam’s Razor: voters are genuinely concerned about the effect social media is having on kids. As a parent I hear about these concerns a lot. That…

Australia doesn't (yet) have a thriving podcast and 'new media' landscape as the US recently discovered it had. Many Australians get their news from one of two large companies (News Corp and Nine Entertainment). Those companies therefore still have massive influence over electorates and therefore over politicians.

From the 2 minute mark in this video explains some of the scheming that had been going on: https://twitter.com/ABCmediawatch/status/1860995847418474952

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#215

Post by yieldcrv » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:26 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #209

nomilk wrote: post #175

Every single Australian 's ID will have to be verified (in order to confirm their age). Depending on the degree of cooperation (/coercion) the Australian government has with social media companies, the Aus Govt will be able to access citizen social media data with relative ease. So no more pseudo anonymous accounts (or, at least, they'll be made more difficult, especially for non-technical folk). Reminds of the 'chil…

> My personal hunch is legacy media is largely driving this, due to them seeing the writing on the wall and knowing 'social media' is their biggest threat For anyone that thinks this is tin foil hat stuff, remember the Australian government passed a law that Facebook and Google MUST pay Rupert Murdoch money everytime someone clicks a link on one of those sites to a Rupert Murdoch owned media company (basically all of…

Goals

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#216

Post by slibhb » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:26 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #206

slibhb wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some regulations are good. Like the ones regulating drugs and gambling (that have been largely dismantled). But we don't need the government to protect people from Facebook!

Why don’t we? Cigarettes are harmful to people, they get regulated. If Facebook is harmful, why not regulate it?

So you really not see a difference between _lung cancer_ and "my teenager is moody"?

The evidence that Facebook harms people is extremely iffy.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#217

Post by hbn » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:28 PM UTC

vanrysss wrote: post #138

BadHumans wrote: post #128

I'm torn here because I think there is very real harm being done with social media not just to kids but to adults as well but you should look at anything being "to protect the children" with extreme prejudice as it is likely just a power grab and way to reduce privacy. The saying "never let a good tragedy go to waste" comes to mind here.

[flagged]

When it comes to my privacy I want the government to accomplish nothing because otherwise they only take.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#218

Post by cen4 » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:29 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #141

Like the spirit, dislike the execution. Passing legislation to “protect the kids” is politically easy. Bans are simple. Much more effective, IMO, would be to legislate the way social networks behave. Stop their most addictive patterns. Adults are just as susceptible as kids in my experience. If there needs to be anything kid specific, perhaps a block on using the service during school hours, or only for X hours a day…

Easiest way it to limit Ads.

If you are selling more ads than there are minutes in a day * population some large enough group is getting mind fucked.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#219

Post by krapp » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:29 PM UTC

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #197

This is pure insanity. This ban is something the Soviet Union or China would do, not the free world.

It wasn't that long ago that Americans were calling TikTok a "Chinese weapon of war and mass indoctrination" and wanting it banned.

To say nothing of everyone wanting Section 230 repealed and the government to regulate social media, requiring a court order for moderation, banning "algorithms" or making social media entirely illegal. The attitude behind this is absolutely endemic across the "free world." Australia is simply a bit further ahead of the curve as far as turning the moral panic over pedos and groomers and Chinese mind control into authoritarian action. As soon as the new regime gets settled in the US I'm sure we'll see something similar. Musk has already made vague threats along those lines.

Re: Australia: Kids under 16 to be banned from social media after Senate passes laws

#220

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 4:29 PM UTC

nomilk wrote: post #214

afavour wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My personal hunch is legacy media is largely driving this The level of conspiracy theory about the “mainstream media” feels out of control at times. Legacy media’s control over the population is already gone (as you stated), with what leverage would they be forcing this? Occam’s Razor: voters are genuinely concerned about the effect social media is having on kids. As a parent I hear about these concerns a lot. That…

Australia doesn't (yet) have a thriving podcast and 'new media' landscape as the US recently discovered it had. Many Australians get their news from one of two large companies (News Corp and Nine Entertainment). Those companies therefore still have massive influence over electorates and therefore over politicians. From the 2 minute mark in this video explains some of the scheming that had been going on: https://twitt…

[deleted]