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Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

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Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#211

Post by diath »

cthalupa wrote: post #208
diath wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not lose 40 pounds of fat while building lean muscle tissue unless you're BOTH relatively new to weightlifting and use PEDs, in which case, the "hysteria" is justified for an average person.

Just the former is likely enough over a 6 month span, even without great genetics. That's only a 1.6lb/week loss. Noob gains can be huge.

A caloric deficit that allows a continuous weight loss of 1.6 lbs a week for 6 months is significant enough to completely wreck your hormonal profile and put you in constant catabolic state, I doubt you would be able to put on any noticeable amount of muscle mass even during your noob gains phase in that context.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#212

Post by echoangle »

diath wrote: post #207

The problem with appetite suppression drugs is that they simply make you not feel hungry, but do nothing to fix your lack of discipline and self-control, I'm sure most people who lose weight on these drugs, and then come off, will just go back to their bad habits.

So why not just stay on the drugs?

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#213

Post by m463 »

jyscao wrote: post #64

[flagged]

On the other hand, being overweight takes years off your life:

"Specifically, we found that BMIs from 40 to 44 were associated with 6.5 years of life lost, but this increased to 8.9 for BMIs from 45 to 49, 9.8 for BMIs from 50 to 54, and 13.7 for BMIs from 55 to 59."

I think for some people the roi is measurable and reasonable.

https://irp.nih.gov/blog/post/2020/01/extreme-obesity-shaves...

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#214

Post by cthalupa »

diath wrote: post #211
cthalupa wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the former is likely enough over a 6 month span, even without great genetics. That's only a 1.6lb/week loss. Noob gains can be huge.

A caloric deficit that allows a continuous weight loss of 1.6 lbs a week for 6 months is significant enough to completely wreck your hormonal profile and put you in constant catabolic state, I doubt you would be able to put on any noticeable amount of muscle mass even during your noob gains phase in that context.

I've seen it happen with people even prior to the GLP-1s - prior to an injury derailing my last attempt to lose weight, I lost 30lb at an even faster rate and had 3 DEXA scans showing consistent increases in LBM.

This conversation does make me wonder about whether or not it would make sense to make the option available for people to go on exogenous testosterone (and yes potentially even women) while on these to help prevent muscle loss.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#215

Post by diath »

echoangle wrote: post #212
diath wrote: post #207

The problem with appetite suppression drugs is that they simply make you not feel hungry, but do nothing to fix your lack of discipline and self-control, I'm sure most people who lose weight on these drugs, and then come off, will just go back to their bad habits.

So why not just stay on the drugs?

You technically could but the idea here is to cut the excess bodyfat percent and get into the healthy range, rather than to keep losing weight, which itself is also unhealthy, but once you become dependent on the drugs to maintain your weight, without fixing your habits, you will just go between getting off the drug, binge eating, gaining the weight back, and hoping back on the drug and losing weight while barely eating, I can't imagine bouncing between such two extremities being good for your health.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#217

Post by phil21 »

jjallen wrote: post #203
tomhoward wrote: post #181

I'm not commenting specifically on the heart-muscle aspect of the study, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the weight loss from this drug is significantly attributable to muscle loss; it almost always is when dieting. It's the same with keto/low-carb or any other kind of caloric-restrictive dieting (which Ozempic facilitates). The modern weight-loss programs I'm seeing now (at least those aimed mostly at middle-age…

For the people who lift weights while on this/these drugs, how much lean muscle do they lose? The point is is that most people lose muscle because they’re not lifting. You will lose muscle if you lose weight no matter the cause, if you are not lifting weights.

Not sure how much I lost during, but a substantial amount. I have been working out since about 20lbs from my goal weight and now roughly a year later - and have gained strength (based on the numbers I can lift) from before I lost 100lbs.

I don’t think it would have been possible to not lose substantial muscle mass while rapidly losing 100lbs over 9mo, even with extreme resistance training added to the mix. While DEXA scans are not super accurate, I’ve put on about 17lbs of muscle since my first scan 10mo ago, while maintaining a 12% or less bodyfat ratio.

That said, I’ve been eating extremely healthy both before and after being on the drug which helps a lot. The drug simply gave me the mental space to avoid the binges which were my particular problem. That and it controls portion sizes to European dinner vs. American restaurant sized meals for me.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#218

Post by echoangle »

diath wrote: post #215
echoangle wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not just stay on the drugs?

You technically could but the idea here is to cut the excess bodyfat percent and get into the healthy range, rather than to keep losing weight, which itself is also unhealthy, but once you become dependent on the drugs to maintain your weight, without fixing your habits, you will just go between getting off the drug, binge eating, gaining the weight back, and hoping back on the drug and losing weight while barely eat…

Can’t you just adjust the dosage to stabilize?

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#219

Post by AlexandrB »

diath wrote: post #207

The problem with appetite suppression drugs is that they simply make you not feel hungry, but do nothing to fix your lack of discipline and self-control, I'm sure most people who lose weight on these drugs, and then come off, will just go back to their bad habits.

K. But getting to a healthy weight by means of discipline and self control has a ~1% success rate[1]. That's dismal.

I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing the drugs over dying early.

[1] https://www.healthline.com/health-news/obese-people-have-sli...

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#220

Post by nielsbot »

julianeon wrote: post #196
jyscao wrote: post #64

[flagged]

You do have to factor in the (probable) cost of not using Ozempic, aka keeping the pounds on. It may be imprecise, but as an example, if a person was likely to die within 10 years at their current weight, any bad effects beyond the 10 year mark have to be heavily discounted.

I assume parent was talking about cosmetic and convenient weight loss not medically necessary weight loss.
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