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Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

phoronix.com

211–220 of 251 posts

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this discourse is that what you said is hardly relevant. We have a clear understanding of what is considered moral and ethical behavior and what's not. The subject matter may as well be discrimination as no valid legal reason was given for action taken against a group of people otherwise. To say that a group of people is valid to discriminate against because reasons is also discriminatory in itself.…

The legal reasons is the sanctions against Russia for their illegal war of aggression. All of Russia and all who live within its borders are responsible for these actions.

There is something beautiful about how U.S. news outlets were always going on about how Russia is a dictatorship, with rigged elections, where you'll be beaten, arrested or killed for protesting or speaking out--Russians supposedly have no agency. And yet simultaneously, now, Russians apparently must be held accountable for everything their government ever does, because they "voted him in" or "should overthrow Putin".

We can't have it both ways. Either Russia is a functioning democracy (which I don't personally believe exists anywhere but that is another topic), or perhaps the average person does not actually have very much say in such events.

Sanctions are meant to harm innocent people as much as possible, on purpose, with the idea being that it will cause so much unrest that the government either caves to the pressure or the people revolt. While I find that very sick in and of itself, I would at least appreciate it if we were honest about that rather than making contradictory moral statements.

That said, worse yet, almost hilariously, I cannot think of a single time sanctions have ever truly worked in a situation even remotely similar to that of Russia. Just think about countries like North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Syria, etc -- like it or not, these countries have not toppled as a result of the sanctions. Do they hurt? Yes, of course, but they evidently do not destroy nations the way we believed they would.

Instead, the innocent are hurt, as was the intention, yet the goal never gets achieved. North Korea still has nuclear weapons, and all we've done is force Iran to develop its own industry, such that, ironically, it is now capable of sending weapons to aid Russia.

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#212
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point, he didn't mention history in general, but specifically "Finnish history". In this respect it's not about British colonialism but more about about Russian imperialism / Stalinism (see Russo-Finnish war 1939).

Linus is acting based on his country's historical grievances, it only makes sense that other projects make decisions based on their own maintainers' grievances - if we approve of this as a good way of making decisions in open source. That's my point. And even with Linux, it's not Linus' personal project anymore, hasn't been for decades - it's a global project with developers from many countries with their own views a…

That's quite a misrepresentation of his statements. "I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be supporting Russian aggression..." is certainly not about grievance. As a matter of fact, the russian aggression is real and not about finish historical grievances.

Open source is fostering collaborative environments, while russia as a state is destroying them deliberately. How does that fit together?

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#213

Am I right to assume that they're not delisting all Russian Linux maintainers, just the ones with some connections to Russian Government? If that is so, then this is comparable to booting people with nazi connections from western scientific projects in 1930s, i.e. perfectly fine and in fact the only reasonable thing to do. Again, this is not being done because these people are russian. Claiming ethnicity-based oppres…

1. Does being a russian means "some connections to Russian Government"? What is the specific criteria used in this case?

2. Does punishment by a nationality means USA is nazi itself?

3. What about that public hatred against a Russian nationality expressed by Torvalds? Is it OK to use a nazi hatred for decisions in USA?

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#214

Am I right to assume that they're not delisting all Russian Linux maintainers, just the ones with some connections to Russian Government? If that is so, then this is comparable to booting people with nazi connections from western scientific projects in 1930s, i.e. perfectly fine and in fact the only reasonable thing to do. Again, this is not being done because these people are russian. Claiming ethnicity-based oppres…

> Am I right to assume that they've not delisting all Russian Linux maintainers, just the ones with some connections to Russian Government?

AFAICT, it is ones employed by sanctioned entities (which presumably is because of those entities connections to the regime, but the direct impetus for the Linux action is compliance with the sanctions regime, not an assessment of regime connections by anyone involved with Linux.)

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#215
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bold statement barely two months after it came to light just how many western influencers were actively sponsored by the russian state.

They weren't. It was just another Russiagate-like hoax which was spread around in turn by much more competent Western propaganda outlets.

Yeah and Tim Pool shutting down now that it came to light just a coincidence, nothing to worry about.

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#216

Am I right to assume that they're not delisting all Russian Linux maintainers, just the ones with some connections to Russian Government? If that is so, then this is comparable to booting people with nazi connections from western scientific projects in 1930s, i.e. perfectly fine and in fact the only reasonable thing to do. Again, this is not being done because these people are russian. Claiming ethnicity-based oppres…

1. Does being a russian means "some connections to Russian Government"? What is the specific criteria used in this case? 2. Does punishment by a nationality means USA is nazi itself? 3. What about that public hatred against a Russian nationality expressed by Torvalds? Is it OK to use a nazi hatred for decisions in USA?

> Does being a russian means "some connections to Russian Government"? What is the specific criteria used in this case?

The specific criteria is legal advice received regarding sanctions regimes.

> Does punishment by a nationality means USA is nazi itself?

No, because (1) nationality alone isn't the basis of the action, (2) Linus has specifically noted that the compliance issues were not solely US law, (3) treated people differently based on their nation of nationality and residence (not your own citizens by national ancestry) is not, even approximately, sufficient to be described as “nazi”.

> What about that public hatred against a Russian nationality expressed by Torvalds? Is it OK to use a nazi hatred for decisions in USA?

Torvald’s expressed that it was irrational to expect him to backtrack and violate the rules on behalf of people connected to the Russian state while it is conducting aggression given the history involved, which is... well, beyond a stretch to call that a “nazi” attitude.

But nice job trolling on behalf of Russia and calling everything hostile to the interests of the Putin regime “nazi”.

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#217

If this was purely because of sanctions, this could have been handled much more gracefully. But it's clear from Linus' comments that he just doesn't respect these volunteers because they happen to be from a particular country. > I'm Finnish. ... Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too. If we're suddenly taking history as a criterion, half of the world should ban British develope…

[dead]

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#218

Am I right to assume that they're not delisting all Russian Linux maintainers, just the ones with some connections to Russian Government? If that is so, then this is comparable to booting people with nazi connections from western scientific projects in 1930s, i.e. perfectly fine and in fact the only reasonable thing to do. Again, this is not being done because these people are russian. Claiming ethnicity-based oppres…

1. Does being a russian means "some connections to Russian Government"? What is the specific criteria used in this case? 2. Does punishment by a nationality means USA is nazi itself? 3. What about that public hatred against a Russian nationality expressed by Torvalds? Is it OK to use a nazi hatred for decisions in USA?

1. No

2. Invalid premise, since they're not punishing by nationality

3. Also invalid premise, Torvalds is not expressing hatred towards Russian nationality

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Does being a russian means "some connections to Russian Government"? What is the specific criteria used in this case? 2. Does punishment by a nationality means USA is nazi itself? 3. What about that public hatred against a Russian nationality expressed by Torvalds? Is it OK to use a nazi hatred for decisions in USA?

> Does being a russian means "some connections to Russian Government"? What is the specific criteria used in this case? The specific criteria is legal advice received regarding sanctions regimes. > Does punishment by a nationality means USA is nazi itself? No, because (1) nationality alone isn't the basis of the action, (2) Linus has specifically noted that the compliance issues were not solely US law, (3) treated pe…

1. Specific reason has not been disclosed. Why these people but not others.

2. If not USA law then what? What is the state selective criteria to honor their dictate? "Good" states are entitled to dictate, all others are ignored. Is this the way how LF works?

3. Torvalds said his decision is based on the past war where Finns were on the Hitler's side. Still so pathetic about that loss.

Re: Linus Torvalds comments on the Russian Linux maintainers being delisted

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Does being a russian means "some connections to Russian Government"? What is the specific criteria used in this case? 2. Does punishment by a nationality means USA is nazi itself? 3. What about that public hatred against a Russian nationality expressed by Torvalds? Is it OK to use a nazi hatred for decisions in USA?

> Does being a russian means "some connections to Russian Government"? What is the specific criteria used in this case? The specific criteria is legal advice received regarding sanctions regimes. > Does punishment by a nationality means USA is nazi itself? No, because (1) nationality alone isn't the basis of the action, (2) Linus has specifically noted that the compliance issues were not solely US law, (3) treated pe…

Trolls are ones who justify this LF move actually
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