US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash • Hacker News Board

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#211

Post by gitaarik » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #102

massysett wrote: post #64

"Tesla says on its website its FSD software in on-road vehicles requires active driver supervision and does not make vehicles autonomous." Despite it being called "Full Self-Driving." Tesla should be sued out of existence.

[flagged]

As I understand, electric cars are more polluting than non-electric, because first of all manufacturing and resources footprint is larger, but also because they are heavier (because of the batteries), the tires wear down much faster, needing more tire replacement, which is so significantly much that their emission free-ness doesn't compensate for it.

Besides, electric vehicles still seem to be very impractical compared to normal cars, because they can't drive very far without needing a lengthy recharge.

So I think the eco-friendliness of electric vehicles is maybe like the full self-driving system: nice promises but no delivery.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#212

Post by gitaarik » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 4:37 PM UTC

porphyra wrote: post #147

UltraSane wrote: post #125

I'm astonished at how long Musk has been able to keep his autonomous driving con going. He has been lying about it to inflate Tesla shares for 10 years now.

Just because it has taken 10 years longer than promised doesn't mean that it will never happen. FSD has made huge improvements this year and is on track to keep up the current pace so it actually does seem closer than ever.

Just like AGI and the year of the Linux desktop ;P

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#213

Post by gitaarik » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 4:40 PM UTC

valval wrote: post #190

two_handfuls wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried it. It drives worse than a teenager. There is absolutely no way this can safely drive a car without supervision.

It’s been safer than a human driver for years. It’s also not meant to be unsupervised.

Something about these two statements seem to be in conflict with each other, but maybe that is just kinda Tesla PR talk.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#214

Post by gitaarik » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 4:49 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #47

My Tesla routinely tries to kill me on absolutely normal California roads in normal sunny conditions, especially when there are cars parked on the side of the road (it often brakes thinking I'm about to crash into them, or even swerves into them thinking that's the "real" lane). Elon's Unsupervised FSD dreams are a good bit off. I do hope they happen though.

I wonder, how are you "driving"? Are you sitting behind the wheel doing nothing except watch really good everything the car does so you can take over when needed? Isn't that a stressful experience? Wouldn't it be more comfortable to just do everything yourself so you know nothing weird can happen?

Also, if the car does something crazy, how much time do you have to react? I can imagine in some situations you might have too little time to prevent the accident the car is creating.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#215

Post by gitaarik » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 4:54 PM UTC

DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #141

Each version has improved. FSD is realistically the hardest thing humanity as ever tried to do. It involves an enormous amount of manpower, compute power and human discoveries, and has to work right in billions of scenarios. Building a self flying plane is comically easy by comparison. Building Starship is easier by comparison.

Ah ok, first it is possible within 2 years, and now it is humanity's hardest problem? If it's really that hard I think we better put our resources into something more useful, like new energy solutions, seems we have an energy crisis.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#216

Post by alexjplant » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 5:05 PM UTC

> The collision happened because the sun was in the Tesla driver's eyes, so the Tesla driver was not charged, said Raul Garcia, public information officer for the department.

Am I missing something or is this the gross miscarriage of justice that it sounds like? The driver could afford a $40k vehicle but not $20 polarized shades from Amazon? Negligence is negligence.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#217

Post by rKarpinski » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 5:08 PM UTC

'Pedestrian' in this context seems pretty misleading

"Two vehicles collided on the freeway, blocking the left lane. A Toyota 4Runner stopped, and two people got out to help with traffic control. A red Tesla Model Y then hit the 4Runner and one of the people who exited from it. "

edit: Parent article was changed... I was referring to the title of the NPR article.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#218

Post by theossuary » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 5:10 PM UTC

alexjplant wrote: post #216

> The collision happened because the sun was in the Tesla driver's eyes, so the Tesla driver was not charged, said Raul Garcia, public information officer for the department. Am I missing something or is this the gross miscarriage of justice that it sounds like? The driver could afford a $40k vehicle but not $20 polarized shades from Amazon? Negligence is negligence.

You know what they say, if you want to kill someone in the US, do it in a car.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#219

Post by macintux » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 5:11 PM UTC

alexjplant wrote: post #216

> The collision happened because the sun was in the Tesla driver's eyes, so the Tesla driver was not charged, said Raul Garcia, public information officer for the department. Am I missing something or is this the gross miscarriage of justice that it sounds like? The driver could afford a $40k vehicle but not $20 polarized shades from Amazon? Negligence is negligence.

I have no idea what the conditions were like for this incident, but I’ve blown through a 4-way stop sign when the sun was setting. There’s only so much sunglasses can do.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#220

Post by deely3 » Sat, Oct 19, 2024, 5:11 PM UTC

soerxpso wrote: post #206

For whatever it's worth, Teslas with Autopilot enabled crash about once every 4.5M miles driven, whereas the overall rate in the US is roughly one crash every 70K miles driven. Of course, the selection effects around that stat can be debated (people probably enable autopilot in situations that are safer than average, the average tesla owner might be driving more carefully or in safer areas than the average driver, et…

> Gaps in Tesla's telematic data create uncertainty regarding the actual rate at which vehicles operating with Autopilot engaged are involved in crashes. Tesla is not aware of every crash involving Autopilot even for severe crashes because of gaps in telematic reporting. Tesla receives telematic data from its vehicles, when appropriate cellular connectivity exists and the antenna is not damaged during a crash, that support both crash notification and aggregation of fleet vehicle mileage. Tesla largely receives data for crashes only with pyrotechnic deployment, which are a minority of police reported crashes.3 A review of NHTSA's 2021 FARS and Crash Report Sampling System (CRSS) finds that only 18 percent of police-reported crashes include airbag deployments.