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MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

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Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've made it a practice to switch of the router while installing or updating macOS or ios. Why are you still using those OSes? That seems like a lot of work for something you paid for.

Because all operating systems are terrible but the rest are so incredibly bad that Apple’s are still by far the best, once you add up time saved by features and capabilities and subtract time lost to pain-in-the-ass brokenness. (Two decades on DOS/Windows home series and NT, at least for gaming and sometimes work, twelve years with Linux as my main desktop OS, started on Android for smartphones, before finally giving…

>Apple’s are still by far the best

MacOS may not even be the best (that's subjective), let alone "by far" the best. How can you make this claim when you haven't used Linux in a decade?

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try every couple years. I tried KDE on Fedora last time (I hate gnome since 3) and could still crash various KDE apps with drag-n-drop operations—I’d trained myself never to use those outside narrow situations on Windows and Linux years ago because they usually broke things or did something stupid, but am now accustomed to them both working and doing something reasonable, so I spot those issues in a hurry when I us…

Hard in this camp too. The OS tinkering that is as requirement of Linux racks up a massive time investment. When you use your computer for work, that bill gets big quick and sometimes it's an inconvenience you just can't afford. MacOS, for all it's faults, can be tamed with little snitch and a slower update cycle, and then you have a relatively solid system. There's still some things to hate, like when I take my airp…

>The OS tinkering that is as requirement of Linux racks up a massive time investment.

Huh, strange.

I install Ubuntu as a daily driver on every system in my house and don't have to do any tinkering outside of customizations I want (which I have more freedom to do).

I mean, I understand there are certain proprietary devices or software that are going to require Windows or MacOS, and that's unfortunate. But the idea that everything is breaking all the time? I just don't see it.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll put this out there, currently there’s no better platform than macOS on apple silicon for developing ai systems. I’m not a stranger to Linux or the command line. I own, use, configure servers as part of my business, including the dreaded on metal cuda install. In fact, the terminal integration in macOS is one of the biggest things over windows for me. But, every time I try linux desktop, for the past 20 years, it…

>there’s no better platform than macOS on apple silicon for developing ai systems. Lmao WHAT? The ANE system isn't even remotely useful, since is primarily designed for running Apple AI stuff. This is why its integration is so spotty. IIRC, Tinygrad is faster on apple silicon than pytorch at this moment, solely because they did a whole bunch of reverse engineering. Laptops for ML is just a lost cause as far as matrix…

>The standard argument of "here is a particular bug that doesn't exist on Macs, therefore Macs are better" lol.

Yeah, this article is literally about an annoying MacOS bug. I use a Mac 8 hours a day for work; it's a great machine, but I bet I'd have 20 glitches and annoyances that I work around, by reflex, all the time.

MacOS is good, but it's certainly not flawless. And if it wasn't for Apple's magnificent hardware, I'm not even sure it's the best.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

I very much doubt that. I tried installing Fedora on my new laptop, and the defaults are horrible. It doesn't even support two-finger gestures on the login screen, so you have to right click in a different way before logging in. At least it's not as bad as Ubuntu, which allowed me with a simple warning to install Nvidia drivers without a full system update, which broke the system so badly it couldn't even boot anymor…

>It doesn't even support two-finger gestures on the login screen, so you have to right click in a different way before logging in.

A default setting you don't like and have to adjust? How horrible.

>At least it's not as bad as Ubuntu, which allowed me with a simple warning to install Nvidia drivers without a full system update

So...user error?

>And Debian is horrible too, it doesn't even have a task bar of any kind (you are forced to Alt tab to switch apps, or even see which other apps are running)

Now I get it, this is satire for someone complaining about the Linux experience. Good one!

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why people still spread the lie that you have to tinker with Linux. Like right now, I can give you a laptop with a clean Linux Mint install, and you never have to touch the terminal for anything system config to do work. Seriously, its not that hard to say that you prefer MacOS because you like the feel of it. It does a lot of handholding for you, unlike Linux, which makes it way less likely for you to me…

That really depends on what type of work you are doing and your specific combo of hardware. And yes you can do work, but when sleep and power management doesn't work it's a significant QoL downgrade. If you want to use CUDA as a simple example, you'll have to go through the process of using nvidia proprietary drivers and I'm far from well versed on it but that gives me random warnings and I don't quite get the compat…

  > If you want to use CUDA as a simple example,
When was the last time you tried this?

If your "CUDA" needs are pytorch, tensorflow, whatever, pip install (or uv pip install) and you're good to go.

When was the last time you even needed to? If you need to do actual kernel writing and thus actually need CUDA (this is pretty uncommon and I think most people that do that wouldn't be asking this question), then most of the issues are not actually issues.

I'll give an example of my latest CUDA error. I run EndeavourOS (Arch based) and so yes, using bleeding edge drivers. Did an update, reboot, oh no... I get to lock screen, login and black screen (but cursor).[0] What's the solution? Roll back cuda. Didn't work? Roll back kernel. Now it works. The problem? nvidia-560-35.03-9 was incompatible with kernel 6.11. I even was able to find in the forums (quickly) the exact issue[1].

But why am I saying this is no biggie? Well... I'm fucking running 560 drivers, which are beta. If you worry about these issues, don't. If you don't want that power, don't run Arch, Gentoo, or other bleeding edges. You know the most confusing part of this all? Was people posting their driver versions with `inxi -G` and so you only see `560.35.03` but I had to roll back `560.35.03-9` to `560.35.03-6`. But also, Nvidia could be better about their namings.

I will also concede that there is a lot of shit information out there and actually parsing what the real answers are takes experience. So here's my advice when you run into your next issue:

  Getting Information:
  - Start with journalctl and dmesg (try `journalctl -b -p 3` and `dmesg -L -l "err+"`. `-b` is only messages since last boot and the other flags are to only give you errors or worse). These are your "logs" 
    - There are others, and they *should* go under `/var/log` but just like in OSX how random junk goes to {~,/}Library/{Caches,Application Support}
    - Check versions, especially if you did an update
      - (side note): For all those confused where files should go, try `man hier`
  - Good chance you can get through by reading the man page, but this doesn't always apply 
    - also remember you can do `man 7 man` or `man man.7` (replace second man with any command). Also see `man -a man`
    - Don't know what man page you need? Try `man --regex cuda`
  - Visit the Arch Wiki (even if you're not on Arch) -- maybe even the Gentoo Wiki. RedHat docs are also pretty good
    - After that, try your distro's (or their parent's) forums.
      - Archwiki is good, Arch forums are a toxic hellhole occupied by people who's idea of grass is entirely contrived from what is visible on a screen. Use the forums of the children. I'm sorry to those who've experienced that place.
  - Then try Google, focusing on things from your logs. This would be up higher, but you can put quotes around things or dates and Google will outright disrespect you now)
    - If it is a specific program that looks to be the issue, try the Git{Hub,Lab} issues page too. Feel free to open an issue. Most devs are pretty nice, even to noobs, though there are also many who will insinuate you RTFM after quoting and linking to it. I'm also sorry about this.

  Solving issues:
  - First try rolling back. If you're not messing with your system, this can make most problems go away VERY quickly. 
    - If you're on a rolling release distro (like Arch) then this is your goto. Unless you like problem solving. But then why are you on Arch? 
    - With `pacman` this can usually be done quickly with `pacman -U file:///var/cache/pacman/pkg/thing-you-want`. You can use other tools, but this is good to know, and you know where things cache :) (`downgrade` is the common tool but it just does this) You can even do kernels this way!
    - Things like `timeshift` are useful (and the `pacman` or `apt` "autosnap"). But beware if you aren't using `grub` to just not do that option. Also check out `btrfs`
    - If need to reinstall an old kernel and it isn't in your cache check out the command `reinstall-kernels` (try `cat /usr/bin/reinstall-kernels`). This is a uncommon task and might only be because you've filled up `/efi` and deleted a kernel.
  - Stop fucking with the kernel if you don't know what you're doing. 99% of the time this is ***NOT*** the solution[2]
    - For nvidia you might want `nvidia_dr.modeset=1` and ***maybe*** (probably not) `nvidia_drm.fbdev=1`
  - Use `find` and `grep`.
    - I'm not joking, `find` is a crazy powerful tool and people sleep on it. (Seriously, how do people jump into large codebases blind and get running without `find`, `grep`, `awk`, and such tools?)[3]
But honestly, you'll need to do none of this stuff if you're on a "baby" distro. I very much welcome people to become more experienced at linux but not everyone needs to be and there's no issue with using a distro that holds your hand (OSX and Windows do). But I would strongly encourage any programmer (not just linux users) to become more familiar with the cli. There's an investment cost, but you'll reap >10x rewards from these efforts, even in general programming situations.

[0] For the fun of it, I asked GPT and gave it logs from journal and dmesg, it did not get the answer, and listening to it would have sent me down a rabbit hole where I'd be messing with the kernel (I use systemd and dracut, these were communicated to GPT and it was asking me to run mkinitcpio and mess with grub lol)

[1] https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/only-black-screen-after-logi...

And hey look, an update: https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/attention-nvidia-gpu-driver-...

[2] For me `/etc/kernel/cmdline` looks pretty much like `nvme_load=YES nowatchdog rw root=UUID= resume=UUID= nvidia_drm.modeset=1 nvidia_drm.fbdev=1` It should be short

[3] Here's a free one for you. Got a python project and you forgot to place `__init__.py` in the folders? `find src -type d -exec touch "{}/__init__.py" \;` (replace `src` with your root source directory)

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. Every Linux-running personal computer that I use or have used is a terrible experience. Something is always broken, the whole system needs to be hard rebooted at least a few times a week, parts of the OS will randomly stop working each day, the list goes on and on. macOS is not perfect by any means, but at least I can actually get work done on it.

In early 2010s this was sometimes the case. In modern days, you can daily drive linux without issues. If you were having issues, it was most likely you were doing something wrong, or you were using a company configured laptop that the IT department didn't set up right.

This is still the case. KDE is full of bugs, bluetooth does not work properly (it fails to swap between hidef to a microphone/speaker setup automatically), 4K monitors have all kinds of problems (though KDE 6 fixes quite a few), hardware decoding in firefox/chromium for videos is a horror, the stupid fan starts all the time out of nowhere (by far the most annoying intel machine behaviour, thermals in windows are much better), and battery is dead after a three-four hours max (and usually much worse than windows on the same horrible x86 hardware).

A macbook air is miles ahead, unless you confine yourself to old hardware. I moved from thinkpads + arch to mac + brew. The experience is insanely better.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really depends on what type of work you are doing and your specific combo of hardware. And yes you can do work, but when sleep and power management doesn't work it's a significant QoL downgrade. If you want to use CUDA as a simple example, you'll have to go through the process of using nvidia proprietary drivers and I'm far from well versed on it but that gives me random warnings and I don't quite get the compat…

> If you want to use CUDA as a simple example, When was the last time you tried this? If your "CUDA" needs are pytorch, tensorflow, whatever, pip install (or uv pip install) and you're good to go. When was the last time you even needed to? If you need to do actual kernel writing and thus actually need CUDA (this is pretty uncommon and I think most people that do that wouldn't be asking this question), then most of th…

Sorry what??

Are you trying to refute my point that you end up tinkering if you are using Linux as a desktop?

I don't want to run bleeding edge, I don't want to compile my OS from source, I did with slackware as a teenager, I just want to play around with SD and other AI models without it causing me to end up with my laptop randomly freezing to a hard reboot until I go down a rabbit hole of driver/kernel/window manger combos.

If I want to do it on Windows it works and I don't get random hard freezes. Trust me I'd prefer to use Linux and do quite a lot but I really don't think you are refuting the point of 'you need to tinker a lot on Linux' with your post.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be worth it: the ridiculous upfront prices to get enough RAM and SSD space, and the lack of upgradeability of those two components, significantly undermine the value proposition of the Mac platform. But the laptops at least are definitely better quality. The touchpad, charger, screen, keyboard, case, speakers, etc. are all well above the Windows competition in terms of both build quality and durability. Th…

>I really would like every key on my keyboard to still work consistently 2 years after I bought the computer. You say this as if Apple didn't spend 5 years selling keyboards that were nearly guaranteed to die after a years worth of usage in a slightly dusty environment. People love Apple hardware because they have a terrible memory for all the flawed hardware Apple always releases and pretends isn't flawed. There are…

I'm not excusing Apple, I'm shaming the competition. There's no justification for the PC laptops to be so bad.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really depends on what type of work you are doing and your specific combo of hardware. And yes you can do work, but when sleep and power management doesn't work it's a significant QoL downgrade. If you want to use CUDA as a simple example, you'll have to go through the process of using nvidia proprietary drivers and I'm far from well versed on it but that gives me random warnings and I don't quite get the compat…

The only issue that I have ever had with drivers is when the ubuntu automatic install defaulted to the latest open source ones which weren't being recognized. For a whole bunch of other installations, following official linux instructions on Nvidia works incredibly well. Im probably up to like 30 installs of linux mint on laptops and desktops, without issues. I had a personal laptop with manjaro that suppored nvidia…

I don't know maybe I've just been unlucky, but at least for me on a couple of different laptops I regularly get full desktop freezes on Debian & Fedora from using things like VMs / GPU accelerated browser (Chrome) / Other things (I don't actually use CUDA/AI much at all but I suspect the issues come from sharing of GPU resources across apps, could be wrong)

This doesn't happen on Windows nearly as much on the same laptops, I don't use Macs that much. And yes I agree it does seem more of an issue with laptops with discrete graphics.

I do still use Linux desktop a lot, I'm happy to take the trade-off but my point was just that depending on the work you do, or the features of the laptop you want to use, like power mgmt or bluetooth, there will be tinkering. (and yes this is entirely manufacturers fault)

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there’s no better platform than macOS on apple silicon for developing ai systems. Lmao WHAT? The ANE system isn't even remotely useful, since is primarily designed for running Apple AI stuff. This is why its integration is so spotty. IIRC, Tinygrad is faster on apple silicon than pytorch at this moment, solely because they did a whole bunch of reverse engineering. Laptops for ML is just a lost cause as far as matrix…

> The standard argument of "here is a particular bug that doesn't exist on Macs, therefore Macs are better" lol. Yeah, this article is literally about an annoying MacOS bug. I use a Mac 8 hours a day for work; it's a great machine, but I bet I'd have 20 glitches and annoyances that I work around, by reflex, all the time. MacOS is good, but it's certainly not flawless. And if it wasn't for Apple's magnificent hardware…

> And if it wasn't for Apple's magnificent hardware,

I would agree with this sentiment if people said something like "Apple has gotten the hardware right with the current gen, but the intel macs were colossal pieces of shit in both hardware and software".

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