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Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

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Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#211

Post by shiroiushi »

benreesman wrote: post #90
SonOfLilit wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would Google, Microsoft and OpenAI oppose a torpedo against open models? Aren't they positioned to benefit the most?

Some laws are just bad . When the API-mediated/closed-weights companies agree with the open-weight/operator-aligned community that a law is bad, it’s probably got to be pretty awful. That said, though my mind might be playing tricks on me, I seem to recall the big labs being in favor at one time. There are a number of related threads linked, but I’ll personally highlight Jeremy Howard’s open letter as IMHO the best-a…

It's too bad companies big and small didn't come together and successfully oppose the passage of the DMCA.

Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#212

Post by Cupertino95014 »

labster wrote: post #191
arduanika wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, we're trying to have a productive discussion here. There's no need to just drop in and insult clowns.

To be fair, clowning around is a lot more tractable than homelessness, housing prices, health care, or immigration.

Hear.

Just keep getting reelected, since no one expects you to accomplish anything. People in the rest of the country push "term limits" as the solution to everything. I always point out that we've had them in CA for 20 years. It just means that they run for a different office after they're termed out.

Or become lobbyists.

Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#213

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

shiroiushi wrote: post #211
benreesman wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some laws are just bad . When the API-mediated/closed-weights companies agree with the open-weight/operator-aligned community that a law is bad, it’s probably got to be pretty awful. That said, though my mind might be playing tricks on me, I seem to recall the big labs being in favor at one time. There are a number of related threads linked, but I’ll personally highlight Jeremy Howard’s open letter as IMHO the best-a…

It's too bad companies big and small didn't come together and successfully oppose the passage of the DMCA.

My understanding is that tech was politically weaker back then. Although there were some big tech companies, they didn’t have as much of a lobbying operation.

Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#214

Post by Vetch »

llamaimperative wrote: post #173
gdiamos wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost as a perf metric is meaningless and the history of computer benchmarks has repeatedly proven this point. There is a reason why we report time (speedup) in spec instead of $$ The price you pay depends on who you are and who is giving it to you.

That’s why there are two thresholds.

Cost per FLOP continues to drop on an exponential trend (and what bit flops do we mean?). Leaving aside more effective training methodologies and how that muddies everything by allowing superior to GPT4 perf using less training flops, it also means one of the thresholds soon will not make sense.

With the other threshold, it creates a disincentive for models like llama-405B+, in effect enshrining an even wider gap between open and closed.

Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#215

Post by shiroiushi »

toephu2 wrote: post #136
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If California was it's own country, it would be one of the biggest most successful countries in the world. Like every where else it has it's problems but it's being run just fine. Objectively, there are many states that are far worse off in any key metric.

> but it's being run just fine As a Californian I have to disagree. The only reason you think it's being run just fine is because of the success of the private sector. The only reason California would be the 4th/5th largest economy in the world is because of the the tech industry and other industries that are in California (Hollywood, agriculture, etc). It's not because we have some awesome efficiently run state gove…

>It's not because we have some awesome efficiently run state government.

Can you point to any place in the world that has an "awesome efficiently run" government?

Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#216

Post by labster »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #212
labster wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, clowning around is a lot more tractable than homelessness, housing prices, health care, or immigration.

Hear. Just keep getting reelected, since no one expects you to accomplish anything. People in the rest of the country push "term limits" as the solution to everything. I always point out that we've had them in CA for 20 years. It just means that they run for a different office after they're termed out. Or become lobbyists.

We should do the same thing in software engineering. After 4 years in web dev, you have to switch to something else like embedded systems or DBA. Or be forced to become a highly paid consultant.

Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#217

Post by wrs »

shiroiushi wrote: post #211
benreesman wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some laws are just bad . When the API-mediated/closed-weights companies agree with the open-weight/operator-aligned community that a law is bad, it’s probably got to be pretty awful. That said, though my mind might be playing tricks on me, I seem to recall the big labs being in favor at one time. There are a number of related threads linked, but I’ll personally highlight Jeremy Howard’s open letter as IMHO the best-a…

It's too bad companies big and small didn't come together and successfully oppose the passage of the DMCA.

As I remember it, among other reasons, tech companies really wanted “multimedia” (at the time, that meant DVDs) to migrate to PCs (this was called the “living room PC”) and studios weren’t about to allow that without legal protection.

Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#218

Post by leogao »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #71

Curious if anyone can point to some resources that summarize the pros/cons arguments of this legislation. Reading this article, my first thought is that I definitely agree it sounds impossibly vague for a piece of legislation - "reasonable care" and "unreasonable risk" sound like things that could be endlessly litigated. At the same time, > Computer scientists Geoffrey Hinton and Yoshua Bengio, who developed much of…

I looked into the question of what counts as reasonable care and wrote up my conclusions here: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kBg5eoXvLxQYyxD6R/my-takes-o...

Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#219

Post by gdiamos »

worstspotgain wrote: post #73
SonOfLilit wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would Google, Microsoft and OpenAI oppose a torpedo against open models? Aren't they positioned to benefit the most?

If there was just one quasi-monopoly it would have probably supported the bill. As it is, the market leaders have the competition from each other to worry about. Getting rid of open models wouldn't let them raise their prices much.

Claude, SSI, Grok, GPT, Llama, …

Should we crown one the king?

Or perhaps it is better to let them compete?

Perhaps advanced AI capability will motivate advanced AI safety capability?

Re: Gavin Newsom vetoes SB 1047

#220

Post by shiroiushi »

oceanplexian wrote: post #181
hbarka wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High speed trains would do even more for California and would be the envy of the rest of the country.

Like most things, the facts bear out the exact opposite. The CA HSR has been such a complete failure that it’s probably set back rail a decade or more. The only saving grace is Florida’s privatized high speed rail, otherwise it would be a completely failed industry.

You're not disproving the OP's assertion. His claim was that HSR (with the implication that it was actually built and working properly) would be good for California and be the envy of the rest of the country, and that seems to be true. The problem is that California tried to do HSR and completely bungled it somehow. Well, of course a bungled project that never gets completed isn't a great thing, that should go without saying.

As for Florida's "HSR", it doesn't really qualify for the "HS" part. The fastest segment is only 200kph. At least it's built and working, which is nice and all, but it's not a real bullet train. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightline)

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