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Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

pv-tech.org

211–220 of 299 posts

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#211
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually, the limiting factor will be how to get rid of the waste heat. Even if you can turn 100% of the energy you received from space into electricity, in the end it'll all turn to heat.

Ok, so we get a really big heat pump that sends all the heat to space.

If only thermodynamics was this easy. Heat pumps ain't magic, alas, they are still subject to physical limitations, including the laws of thermodynamics.

Also keep in mind that cooling the hot part of your space heat pump is very limited: there's no convection nor conduction in space. You can only lose heat energy via radiation or ablation (= shooting away hot pieces).

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#212
post #139

I'm Aussie and I can't believe this Sun Cable project is being taken seriously by our government. The longest submarine power cable in the world - the Viking Link - is a mere 756 km long and cost US$2.2bn to build. Sun Cable calls for a 4,200km submarine cable to be built! I do not expect the construction cost to scale linearly and I shudder to imagine the maintenance difficulties and expenses. Back in December 2015,…

Perhaps it's similar to the high speed rail projects that get announced and quietly shelved every election season?

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#213
post #95
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All while Australian's themselves pay astronomical prices for power

Surely solar panels are affordable with typical Australian household incomes? And much more effective even in southern Tasmania at 45°S as compared to southern Finland at 60°N (where they're apparently cost-effective since they're building solar farms). If they feel their electricity provider is screwing with them, why not make their own? Probably even with batteries it would pay for itself given the ROI I'd guess pa…

Australia has the per capita highest rooftop solar capacity on Earth and it's generously subsidised.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#214

4,300km of subsea cable... I'm must completely be missing something. We can't get renewables into our own grid let alone over the hemisphere. https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/

It's vastly more simple to run one cable through the ocean than run heaps of high voltage lines between all the remote renewable generation sites and the consumers. Even with the solar built into a suburb, you need to built much thicker connections to transfer it to other consumers than what you do in the old generation system. Distributed grids are complicated.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#215
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much bigger of a health hazard is manufacturing/installing solar panels compared to nuclear? Let's say, per one terawatt-hour of produced energy, how many people die doing each?

First you’re going to need reliable worker safety data and population cancer rate data out of China (which makes almost all panels), which…. Good luck.

Is there a link between Solar production and Cancer? I mean there is a super obvious one with Nuclear.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#216
post #139

I'm Aussie and I can't believe this Sun Cable project is being taken seriously by our government. The longest submarine power cable in the world - the Viking Link - is a mere 756 km long and cost US$2.2bn to build. Sun Cable calls for a 4,200km submarine cable to be built! I do not expect the construction cost to scale linearly and I shudder to imagine the maintenance difficulties and expenses. Back in December 2015,…

Curious if like internet cable - can there be redundancy built?

Also the way data packets go - they can go literally from any of the lines and get assembled together somewhere in the network layer. But same doesn’t hold true for 3 phase power. So same that works for internet wouldn’t be applicable for power distribution.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#217
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shopping calculations for them need not be about economic cost benefit analysis. But there's also no good reason not to apply cost/benefit analysis. > Singapore with a native population of about 4 million has reserves of about $1 trillion. They can afford to splurge to claim green/net-zero status. Of all numbers to bring up here, why did you pick foreign exchange reserves? GDP or wealth might be more relevant?

No one applies economic cost benefit analysis to buy a Louis Vuitton bag for $50,000. Prestige, signalling, membership to exclusive club, etc dominate the consideration. Reserves are cash in hand and represent immediate and hard spending power.

> Prestige, signalling, membership to exclusive club, etc dominate the consideration.

So? These _benefits_ also fit into a bog standard cost/benefit analysis. For example, Singapore would need to weight this project against buying everyone a luxury handbag..

Btw, in any case keep in mind that the project is privately financed and will make money selling electricity to Singaporeans. The electrons that power my gadgets at home don't have any colour, so I can't even tell if my electricity comes from a particularly prestigious source. It's all intermediated by the wholesale market.

> Reserves are cash in hand and represent immediate and hard spending power.

That's about on the same level as arguing that having a money printing press represents raw spending power.

Most central banks around the world conduct monetary policy via domestic interest rates and affect these interest rates by buying and selling domestic government bonds. Thus they will have lots of government bonds on their balance sheet. But it doesn't mean that they can just take these bonds and use them to buy solar farms.

The Monetary Authority of Singapore is (almost?) unique in foregoing interest rate as a channel of monetary policy, and instead working via the foreign exchange rate. They affect the foreign exchange rate by buying foreign currencies via freshly minted Singapore dollars (or selling them to remove Singapore dollars from the market).

And just like the American Fed keeps the government bonds they buy on their balance sheet (and pretty much has to!), our Monetary Authority of Singapore keeps the foreign currency on the balance sheet, and they show up as reserves.

By design, Singapore has at least as much in foreign exchange reserves as we issued domestic currency.

In a sense, most of the eg Euros in our reserves are already 'spent', but they are spent in the form of SGD in circulation. (I say 'most', because we have more reserves than we issued SGD. Singapore is cautious like that.)

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are batteries included as part of this project. So I don't think time really matters.

Yes, but will it wipe out the advantage of solar by adding cost to the generation capacity? As I said, batteries still aren't cheap, and their replacement lifetime is still not good. We could rely on future technology, but is that a sound investment plan? If this project is viable, then it'll probably be more viable to have a massive solar farm coming from India, where the timezone shift is in the correct direction,…

I think any project is going to need some form of capacitor as a grid would just become unstable if you dump a huge amount of peak solar onto it without the consumption.

So either way you need batteries, and all the problems they bring. Just about "how many".

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but will it wipe out the advantage of solar by adding cost to the generation capacity? As I said, batteries still aren't cheap, and their replacement lifetime is still not good. We could rely on future technology, but is that a sound investment plan? If this project is viable, then it'll probably be more viable to have a massive solar farm coming from India, where the timezone shift is in the correct direction,…

I think any project is going to need some form of capacitor as a grid would just become unstable if you dump a huge amount of peak solar onto it without the consumption. So either way you need batteries, and all the problems they bring. Just about "how many".

Sure, but that how many is a critical factor in the overall cost of energy delivered

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#220
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the country has a big housing affordability issue.

But the majority of Singaporeans live in public housing where rent is adjusted for income based via a grant system?

Not quite.

The vast majority of Singaporeans live in apartments they own, and don't pay rent. However you are right that most of these apartments were built by an arm of the government, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board

There are grants for lower income people to make it easier for them to buy a home. Some people also rent directly from the government, but that's the exception. Most own.

Housing ain't cheap in Singapore. Whether you measure that in terms of rent, or in terms of monthly mortgage costs, or in terms of the opportunity cost of capital (for those who own their homes outright). As everywhere else in the world that's mostly a function of supply and demand, and where that supply comes from (public, private, etc) doesn't really matter too much.

Singapore has been building a lot of housing, and is still building a lot of housing. Both by public and private developers. But we are living on a small island with lots of people, and thanks mostly to immigration our population is still growing. (I myself am an immigrant here.)

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