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Okay, I Like WezTerm

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Re: Okay, I Like WezTerm

#211

Post by thefaux »

gouggoug wrote: post #131
imoverclocked wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some programmers (like myself) have little patience for people they consider should know better and are wasting their time. These same programmers are far more charitable to newbies because they know newbies are still learning. Some programmers are life-long learners and know a very different subset of things. It’s important to remember that just because something is obvious to you doesn’t make it right and doesn’t…

Totally agree. Though, usually these programmers know how to properly ask a question, make a bug report and/or feature request. They wouldn't, for example, just barge in an oss project with arguably low value statements like "Python 2 is retiring in thirty months. Calibre needs to convert to Python 3."

I am guessing you haven't interacted with the developer of kitty. It is astounding how needlessly rude he is. No matter our expertise, we all have areas of ignorance and it is precisely due to that ignorance that we may not have the language to "properly" frame our question. If we had that knowledge, we wouldn't be asking the question in the first place.

I have never seen a maintainer go so far above and beyond to condescend and insult people asking questions -- not making demands like your example. In my case, I asked a question about something that wasn't working as I expected in the github discussions and he repeatedly insulted my intellect (while simultaneously blaming another program when it was in fact a kitty misconfiguration that was causing my issue). He did eventually leave enough breadcrumbs that I was able to solve my problem but rarely have I had such a negative experience with asking an (IMO) not stupid question.

Re: Okay, I Like WezTerm

#212

Post by hodapp »

bramhaag wrote: post #183
leblancfg wrote: post #10

Recently switched to WezTerm and I'm very happy. Was using kitty before that – loved the set up and simplicity coming from iTerm2. WezTerm is leaps and bounds better in terms of what comes out-of-the-box. My terminal config is short enough to sit all in one screen on my editor. After that, the terminal just... gets out of the way and I don't need to think about it. But the straw that broke my back with using kitty wa…

> e.g. IIRC his answer to "How do I set up tmux with kitty?" was something like "Don't, tmux is dumb" and closing it. Eventually I gave up. Heh, I switched from Kitty to Wezterm due to the exact same types of comments from the maintainer. It's his project of course, and he's a great programmer, but some humility wouldn't hurt.

My story is about the same as yours. Kovid's arrogance pushed me away.

Re: Okay, I Like WezTerm

#213

Post by Arnavion »

bramhaag wrote: post #183
leblancfg wrote: post #10

Recently switched to WezTerm and I'm very happy. Was using kitty before that – loved the set up and simplicity coming from iTerm2. WezTerm is leaps and bounds better in terms of what comes out-of-the-box. My terminal config is short enough to sit all in one screen on my editor. After that, the terminal just... gets out of the way and I don't need to think about it. But the straw that broke my back with using kitty wa…

> e.g. IIRC his answer to "How do I set up tmux with kitty?" was something like "Don't, tmux is dumb" and closing it. Eventually I gave up. Heh, I switched from Kitty to Wezterm due to the exact same types of comments from the maintainer. It's his project of course, and he's a great programmer, but some humility wouldn't hurt.

>and he's a great programmer

The people who had to deal with the Calibre setuid binaries fiasco in 2011 would probably disagree :) ( https://lwn.net/Articles/465311/ )

Re: Okay, I Like WezTerm

#214

Post by KolenCh »

cpuguy83 wrote: post #202
KolenCh wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur, a few problems leading me to migrate from kitty to wezterm are related to tmux, color, and ssh.

Somewhat fresh kitty user (a few weeks now). What's your ssh issue? Also saw Wezterm pop up last week and definitely decided I'll give it a go here soon.

The first two top results:

https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/faq/#i-get-errors-about-the-...

https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/discussions/3873

Basically it is how it presents itself as xterm-kitty and then how to make others recognize that. Installing terminfo on the remote is an option, lying and claim it to be xterm-256color is another (with caveats.)

As in other issues with kitty, the author is probably right. But for many people that they have many different kinds of remotes to log into where they don’t have control over, getting around with these issues is tedious.

Making kitty works is possible, and I learnt how to deal with these issues one by one, but hearing comments here on HN points me to wezterm and once I migrated I never looked back. For the simple stuffs wezterm gets out of the way. And there’s some interesting advanced stuffs to pick up, such as multiplexing with ssh: https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/multiplexing.html?h=ssh#ssh-d...

Re: Okay, I Like WezTerm

#215

Post by tennix »

medstrom wrote: post #175
bibstha wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently moved from Kitty+Tmux to Tmux only setup. I think the maintainer has implemented most of the features in tmux like split panes, switching, changing layouts etc and is probably why says what he says. For me, I've found Kitty quite configurable enough to have everything except the remote server thing. I used this as my guide: https://www.reddit.com/r/KittyTerminal/comments/z2p2sh/ditch...

Do you mean Kitty only setup?

I've been a long tmux user, but I've migrated to Kitty only setup. To make my muscle memory feel at home, I configured Kitty with nearly the same keybindings as tmux. Here is my setup https://blog.funcer.xyz/blog/kitty-terminal/

Re: Okay, I Like WezTerm

#216

Post by naikrovek »

hrez wrote: post #205
binary132 wrote: post #29

In my experience Wez has been shockingly responsive to GitHub issues and usually fixes things (if they’re actually wrong) within a day or two. I’ve only found one or two minor quibbles involving modifier keys over SSH and overall the functionality is basically perfect for my needs. Plus it’s nice and fast. (Former avid Alacritty user but needed better modifier support for remote emacs.)

I didn't have as positive experience. Granted I commented on a closed issue. In any case it was closed as "won't do" and my comment was ignored. I didn't feel like opening a new issue for the same that was already dismissed. https://github.com/wez/wezterm/issues/4706

Yeah Wez is limited by tmux behavior. If tmux breaks up one line into many, wezterm can’t undo that.

Wes is right about wezterm domains though. The native domains feature and pane support I think will meet the needs of most.

Re: Okay, I Like WezTerm

#217

Post by Aeolun »

Arnavion wrote: post #213
bramhaag wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> e.g. IIRC his answer to "How do I set up tmux with kitty?" was something like "Don't, tmux is dumb" and closing it. Eventually I gave up. Heh, I switched from Kitty to Wezterm due to the exact same types of comments from the maintainer. It's his project of course, and he's a great programmer, but some humility wouldn't hurt.

>and he's a great programmer The people who had to deal with the Calibre setuid binaries fiasco in 2011 would probably disagree :) ( https://lwn.net/Articles/465311/ )

I think that's far enough ago that we can't really draw any conclusions from that to today.

It's like someone deciding my current skill based on how good I was when I left university.

Re: Okay, I Like WezTerm

#219

Post by Aeolun »

saurik wrote: post #207
aumerle wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't believe things you read in hacker news comments. saurik is lying, probably because he once requested some feature that the kitty maintainer didnt like and refused with good reasons, which made saurik want to curl up into a ball and cry. To say kitty has no configuration options is the exact opposite of the truth. Proof: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/conf/

I mean I might be "lying"... or I might be confusing him with the Gnome Terminal developers, with respect to that one specific tiny quote about "not liking settings". (FWIW, the setting in question with respect to make menuconfig is "use bold as bright", where the kitty developer is on a vendetta to refuse the historical precedent. He is very adamant that he knows better than most everyone else on this point.) Either…

> where the kitty developer is on a vendetta to refuse the historical precedent

I mean, he's not wrong. Everyone else should update their shit to be proper so that he doesn't have to deal with all this legacy nonsense. It's just annoying as hell for people using it right now.

Re: Okay, I Like WezTerm

#220

Post by nine_k »

binary132 wrote: post #29

In my experience Wez has been shockingly responsive to GitHub issues and usually fixes things (if they’re actually wrong) within a day or two. I’ve only found one or two minor quibbles involving modifier keys over SSH and overall the functionality is basically perfect for my needs. Plus it’s nice and fast. (Former avid Alacritty user but needed better modifier support for remote emacs.)

Regarding remote Emacs: WezTerm allows to completely capture and redefine key combinations. There's no good way to send things like C-S-", the terminal protocol just does not support them. So I made WezTerm send " c s '" instead, and added extra bindings in Emacs. This F12 trick allowed me to send quite complex combos that terminal protocols can't support.
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