New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#211

Post by excuse-me » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:05 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #207

gouranga wrote: post #84

Sorry but you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one to be honest if that is the case. Apple are making an attempt to turn generic computers into disposable appliances with moves like these. I would never accept a compromise like that with a computer that I owned. My rationale is as follows: If I pay £1800 for one of those machines, I expect to be able to repair common problems easily. That's a lot of money sittin…

Laptop CPUs have been soldered in for as long as I can remember. We've all come to accept that as a perfectly reasonable compromise. With the exception of some high-end gaming laptops, GPUs are also soldered in. Apple have made the perfectly reasonable decision to maximise portability for the 99% of users who never upgrade any component, over the 1% for whom upgradability matters. To dismiss people with different pri…

Alternatively they have made an expensive professional tool into a disposable consumer gadget.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#212

Post by gouranga » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:07 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #191

gouranga wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I agree entirely. The intent was to mock the comment about suitability for a task. Sometimes it is appropriate to do so to convey a point. My sincerest apologies if such an approach is offensive.

Being offensive is a secondary concern. The primary concern is that you failed to communicate your point. Even re-reading your comments, I cannot see any indication of sarcasm; I see no indication that you agree with my point that many people who do useful work related to computing use Macbooks.

I'll clarify here for you.

Whilst I agree people do useful work relating to MacBooks in general, I do not find that this MacBook is worthy of purchase and outlined my reasons why. I do not specifically slate all MacBooks as a whole, but the general approach being taken on their design which favours consumerism over pragmatism, practicality and convention.

My comment derided the machine and branded it as only suitable for an unimportant segment of MacBook users who produce nothing of value with it and to whom it is a fashion accessory or trinket. It's analogous to the old comment about celery taking more calories to eat than it provides.

Is that a fairer deconstruction of the point?

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#213

Post by scott_s » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:08 PM UTC

okamiueru wrote: post #208

scott_s wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're relatively new here, so you may not be familiar with our community's culture. Please read the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html In particular, note: Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation.

Technically, no one owns one of these yet, so the expressed remark is directed at the design, and decisions behind the design. Also, the reasoning is provided as well. If it crosses the line, it's mostly because of the profanity in itself, though I don't see the need for a reprimand.

It's not the profanity, but the intent behind the statement with the profanity. Remove the profanity, and it's still not a civil comment. It poisons discussion.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#214

Post by tsieling » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:11 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #205

ctdonath wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making components replaceable increases volume, weight, and cost. If you want replaceable components, go buy a computer for which that is a feature - and know that you will get a machine which is larger, heavier, and more expensive (all other factors being equal). Swapable components require additional casing, connectors, testing, sales channels, etc. You're not going to get a 3/4" 5-lb 7-hour 256GB-SSD 8GB-RAM MBA R…

You're not an idiot, you just like Apple and have enough money not to care about getting ripped off. This design decision has nothing to do with reducing "volume, weight and cost". It has everything to do with hosing the customer on memory, as that has been a very lucrative business on the iPad.

Ripped off is subjective. I want someone else to take care of that stuff for me, so that makes Apple's direction a good one for me. I don't like tinkering with my computer, I don't like fucking around with it to make it do what I need. I do what I do with it and it works, it works better than any of the heap of garbage PCs that I sunk countless hours into before I switched. That's why I use it, and I'm neither an idiot nor ripped off. I get what I expect and more and I'm happy to give them my money for it. Levelling slurs at people who happen to be in their market makes you look like, well, you know.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#215

Post by scott_s » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:13 PM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #212

scott_s wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being offensive is a secondary concern. The primary concern is that you failed to communicate your point. Even re-reading your comments, I cannot see any indication of sarcasm; I see no indication that you agree with my point that many people who do useful work related to computing use Macbooks.

I'll clarify here for you. Whilst I agree people do useful work relating to MacBooks in general, I do not find that this MacBook is worthy of purchase and outlined my reasons why. I do not specifically slate all MacBooks as a whole, but the general approach being taken on their design which favours consumerism over pragmatism, practicality and convention. My comment derided the machine and branded it as only suitable…

We appreciate comments like the above much more. It promotes better discussion.

Regarding the content of what you said, we still disagree. I know many people who use MacBooks, most of which are CS researchers and one astrophysicist. Of that set, I know of one person who upgraded their machine at all (a CS professor who replaced his harddrive with an SSD). I view Apple's design decision of making the RAM non-upgradable in line with my use, and the use of almost everyone I know. We certainly try to do work that has value, and we do not see our work computers as fashion accessories or trinkets.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#216

Post by gouranga » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:13 PM UTC

lbraasch wrote: post #189

gouranga wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't. I do know what is involved though. You dig a big hole and put them in it. Then over 25 years or so the lithium seeps out into the water table...

you forgot to pot it in epoxy first.

They only do that in the EU and US.

Usually from what I understand in Europe at least, they pack them, mail them to an EU border country such as Turkey to comply with EU regs and certification and they're shipped on to the far east by the lowest bidder. They then appear in land fills and are picked apart by children for the copper...

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#217

Post by tsieling » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:13 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #197

stouset wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. The elitism here is just disgusting. I suppose all the graphic designers, photographers, programmers, and even just plain old novice users who love Apple products should just pack their bags and go back to pencils and paper. After all, if they're not doing any kind of serious comp…

Its not elitism. Apple is trying very hard to convert a computer into a washing machine. Which is, giving it a specific use, like a TV or a refrigerator and tightly controlling everything behind that use.

Yeah a washing machine that edits videos, keeps all my stuff together and makes it easy to use. Why don't we just accept that the general purpose, let the user figure it out approach is dead in the water. People are voting with their dollars and they're saying they've had enough of tech that feels like tech. The paradigm changed, we're no longer kings when mom's printer driver is out of date, and it's time to grow up and accept it.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#218

Post by super_mario » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:13 PM UTC

idspispopd wrote: post #182

JackC wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumptions are completely wrong, and it only shows that Apple target customers are not really doing any kind of serious computing. This is true. I for one do all my computing with a goofy grin on my face, while riding a unicycle. In all seriousness, this product will be perfect for me. The lower weight will help with my unicycling, and the 4-core i7 will look great with my butterfly wings.

You're having an argument with a bunch of InstantExperts™ who are clearly motivated by other sources or tied to luddite ideologies. They're more interested in presenting Apple as an evil empire because this fits their personal objectives. Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits…

I am heavily invested in Apple for the record. I use everything from Mac Pro, iMac (all versions), all of their MBPs (no airs), iPhones, iPads etc. I have invested over $30k in their hardware, so that gives me some right to criticize their direction.

All of the computers have been updated post purchase. I've put more RAM into iMacs, more RAM and SSDs into MBPs, and Mac Pros got more RAM, video cards, SSDs, HDDs etc.

In fact, one of the very first things I do is buy more RAM for my MBPs because it is more economical to do it yourself. Then if you wait 2 years, you can again double your RAM for extremely low price.

If Apple were making only this harder because of physical design constraints, you would have a point. But they are also artificially constraining the OS to make it more appliance like, and less and less UNIX like. But that's OK. Most of the users wouldn't know UNIX from eunuchs anyway.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#219

Post by freyrs3 » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:15 PM UTC

mironathetin wrote: post #162

gouranga wrote: post #84

Sorry but you have got to be a fucking idiot to buy one to be honest if that is the case. Apple are making an attempt to turn generic computers into disposable appliances with moves like these. I would never accept a compromise like that with a computer that I owned. My rationale is as follows: If I pay £1800 for one of those machines, I expect to be able to repair common problems easily. That's a lot of money sittin…

"Sorry but stuff like this is just pandering to consumerism if it is disposable by design." You are kind of right. We use our 7 year old G4 Powerbook with the 4th battery. Its a pity that there is no real operating system available for a Thinkpad.

> Its a pity that there is no real operating system available for a Thinkpad.

What would constitute a real operating system? Last time I checked Windows/Linux/BSD are very much real operating systems.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#220

Post by dr42 » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 3:16 PM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #105

biafra wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The battery is easily replaceable. If you know how to use a screwdriver. Is that too much to ask?

Err, it's glued in which is considerably worse: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Displ... Actually, looking through the entire teardown, I think the battery being glued in is worse than anything as levering it out is likely to cause the Li-Ion cells to blow up. Also consider how hard it is recycling that machine! Their summary: 1. Proprietary pentalobe screws prevent you from gaining access to a…

Is this rant all just some cognitive dissonance because you can't afford one? You're not thinking this through, the machine may not make sense for you because it sounds like you enjoy tinkering with the innards of a laptop, but you cannot speak for others, or try to evangelize your opinion and persuade other not to buy one. It just makes you look bitter about something. Please try to be accept that this machine is not something you need. Your attitude towards Mac owners is very clear by your offensive language, which negates any actual points that you might have.

I am sure apple has thought of how to recycle these machines because they take that stuff seriously. They don't expect you to recycle it, technology is complex stuff and the whole life cycle needs people with expert knowledge and that includes the reuse and recycling stage.

Now I need to get back to my Starbucks latte and wave things around..l lighten up... Life's too short to take on a cause like this.