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Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

english.hani.co.kr

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Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#211

Post by comex »

sangnoir wrote: post #202
Teever wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You expect the cost of a self replicating object to remain out of reach of the average person? Why don't you think it would follow the same cost curve as integrated circuits?

> You expect the cost of a self replicating object to remain out of reach of the average person? Yes. What's the cost of relocating software, or a movie, or an audio file? Very close to 0 (a few cents at most), and yet observe how much our current system prices each of those items. Capitalism, as practiced today, maximizes profits, not competition, I don't see that changing any time soon

And yet none of those items are out of reach of the average person. On the contrary, they’re usually pretty cheap. Precisely because replication costs nothing, the strategy that maximizes profit is to maximize the number of copies sold rather than the amount earned per copy.

You can see similar effects in hardware too, since even without self-replication there are already massive economies of scale. How much does it cost to get access to the output of most advanced chip fabrication technology on the planet? The answer is whatever the price of the latest flagship smartphone is.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#212

Post by knorker »

rsynnott wrote: post #168
knighthack wrote: post #125

[flagged]

This might be a regional thing; "striking workers" in a standard usage in, at least, British and Irish English.

I think it's a context thing.

"A striking man" I would not read as a man on strike, unless the context is already labor relations. And with only the title to go on, there's no existing context. "He was a man of 25, rugged features, and striking". You can't say that anywhere in the world does this mean he was on strike.

"Striking workers" sounds like workers on strike.

"UFC employee strikes" sounds like a deliberate pun title that The Economist would use when talking about UFC fighters either go on strike, or a UFC fighter decides to invest during low prices.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#213

Post by knorker »

makeitdouble wrote: post #201
1970-01-01 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Striking in American means it will be shocking and arresting to view or behold. The Grand Canyon is striking in size. Striking in EU is put on the calendar for Monday. The pilot union is striking until the coffee is served at the perfect temperature.

> The pilot union is striking until the coffee is served at the perfect temperature. Getting third degree burns at 35000 feet in the sky would sure ruffle some feathers.

Gotta strike while the iron's hot.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#214

Post by DiscourseFan »

ryandrake wrote: post #13
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #7

> Samsung’s 12-inch line utilizes an overhead hoist transport (OHT) system, an automated transport network that operates along tracks installed on the ceiling, to move bundles of 25 wafers called “lots.” On the 8-inch line, however, this transportation is done manually. There is much more market demand for 12-inch wafers, so Samsung has modernized and automated many processes. The 8-inch line, however, is outdated. W…

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

Well, no. Labor value decreases, but hours stay the same since more can be produced in the same time. This creates surplus value, which is taken by whoever controls the means of production. Workers, realizing they are being cut out, strike, negotiate higher wages. Rinse and repeat (this, if you ask the progressives at least!)

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#215

Post by eru »

cageface wrote: post #210
eru wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're willing to deny them all that then they're cheap and easy to replace. It's not about what the employer is willing to do, it's about what people are willing to accept; especially if there's competition for their services. > Whereas building a machine that can do even the basics of what a human hand can do is quite expensive. We even have robots that can wash dishes, and they are cheap enough to be in a sub…

I take it you've never lived in a developing country? People there don't have much bargaining power. For example, when I lived in Vietnam I'd often see a road crew of ten people with shovels because it was cheaper than hiring one backhoe. A washing machine would be an unimaginable luxury for all of them.

I grew up in (now former) East Germany, and the autobiography of the first leader of my adopted home is literally called 'From Third World to First'.

Though I'm not sure what you are trying to say? I guess you are agreeing with me? Yes, if there are many companies that compete for your services and can put them to productive use, you have a lot of bargaining power in those negotiations. Conversely, where those options are lacking, you have less bargaining power.

Yes, Vietnam started from a fairly low base, but has seen phenomenal growth in the last few decades. See eg https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/PPPPC@WEO/VNM?zoom=V... You can bet your hat that workers' absolute bargaining power has improved by leaps and bounds.

As a consequence, at https://tradingeconomics.com/vietnam/wages you can see how average Vietnamese wages have exploded over time. (Even if their data only goes back to 2011, the growth is still very impressive.)

Apparently washing machines are a real growth segment in Vietnam: https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/household-appliances/ma...

These days around 58% of households in Vietnam have a washing machine.

Yes, in general many people around the world used to be dirt poor. And while things have improved, many of these people merely graduated from 'dirt poor' to 'poor'. But that's still progress, and we are continuing to advance. To future generations, even our richest people alive today will look poor by comparison.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#216

Post by ChoGGi »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #117
Xen9 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The end game is that average human becomes a pet. Horses weren't needed and they became pets; same for average human. This can only happen perfectly if the manufacturers eventually start to come after those who are self-reliant, which I believe is in line with the psychology of humans. Funny thing is this is ALSO analogous to what we have done certain animals.

You’re thinking of slavery with extra steps.

Ohh la la, somebody's gonna get laid in college

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#217

Post by cageface »

eru wrote: post #215
cageface wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you've never lived in a developing country? People there don't have much bargaining power. For example, when I lived in Vietnam I'd often see a road crew of ten people with shovels because it was cheaper than hiring one backhoe. A washing machine would be an unimaginable luxury for all of them.

I grew up in (now former) East Germany, and the autobiography of the first leader of my adopted home is literally called 'From Third World to First'. Though I'm not sure what you are trying to say? I guess you are agreeing with me? Yes, if there are many companies that compete for your services and can put them to productive use, you have a lot of bargaining power in those negotiations. Conversely, where those option…

I lived in Vietnam for eight years, speak the language fluently, and have traveled through almost every part of the country No need to quote statistics at me, especially a completely ludicrous claim that 58% of households have a washing machine. Only someone that doesn’t know the country at all would believe that. Many people just barely got access to reliable electricity.

I’d like to agree with your final assessment but assuming that the growth arc of the last 50 years is going to continue requires a lot of optimism.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#218

Post by petra »

svara wrote: post #24
ryandrake wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Some workers lose their jobs to automation. > 2. The remaining ones have a weaker negotiation power, as their jobs are on the way out anyway. So companies have even more incentive to abuse them. I wonder what the eventual end game is, when you let everything play out to its logical conclusion. Eventually, business owners will no longer need people at all. They'll own a magical fully-automated factory that mainta…

That's the argument for universal basic income in a nutshell. I'm not so convinced, I think this comes from the limited mental model of thinking of the economy as a system for making widgets. Rather, the economy is what happens when a society organizes its member's aggregated needs and desires. Being a valued member of a community is a rather basic human need. As such, the economy will find novel ways to meet that ag…

Many jobs don't really offer being valued to those working them.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#219

Post by sangnoir »

comex wrote: post #211
sangnoir wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You expect the cost of a self replicating object to remain out of reach of the average person? Yes. What's the cost of relocating software, or a movie, or an audio file? Very close to 0 (a few cents at most), and yet observe how much our current system prices each of those items. Capitalism, as practiced today, maximizes profits, not competition, I don't see that changing any time soon

And yet none of those items are out of reach of the average person. On the contrary, they’re usually pretty cheap. Precisely because replication costs nothing, the strategy that maximizes profit is to maximize the number of copies sold rather than the amount earned per copy. You can see similar effects in hardware too, since even without self-replication there are already massive economies of scale. How much does it…

> And yet none of those items are out of reach of the average person

Average person - not average American or individual from developed countries. I know of software that's well out of reach of even the average American.

> The answer is whatever the price of the latest flagship smartphone is.

Therein lies the problem with the assertion that prices will inevitably driven downwards: the price of a flagship phone is not driven by cost of making it - instead the OEMs select a price-point first and then work backwards from there. When was the last time the price of a flagship smartphone series decreased? Compare this to the number of times has it increased.

Re: Women who make Samsung semiconductors are striking

#220

Post by kbelder »

Nasrudith wrote: post #185
wtcactus wrote: post #174

Why only the women? Aren’t men working in the same conditions? I’ve read the article, but it doesn’t explain why the disparity between sexes.

I've heard accounts of that type of sexism before in Japan. From what I recall hearing many programming shops are all female because the market as a whole is sexist enough that they can get away with paying women lower wages. I have neither cite-able sources nor first hand experience admittedly so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

My son was in Japan a few years back, and said that there was a 'help wanted' publication for the city he was in. It was released in two volumes, one for men, one for women. I seem to remember he said they were blue and pink, but that might be something my mind added after the fact.
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