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Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

arstechnica.com

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Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#211

> "I understand that publishers and authors have to make a profit, but most of the material I am trying to access is written by people who are dead and whose publishers have stopped printing the material," wrote one IA fan from Boston. This really is the crux of the problem. Copyright should be "use it or lose it." If you don't make your books readily available, then you should have no right to demand copies of your…

No, it really isn't. That person, and you, don't understand how publishing - or mass production of any kind, it seems - works.

A publisher "stopping printing" of a book is completely normal - books are like any other mass-produced good, in that there are fixed and variable costs to production and a factory can't economically crank out more than a certain number of different things at once.

Sp, there are "printings" - ie a production run - and then that inventory is sold to distributors. When the inventory is sold out, it is "out of print." That does not mean it's not available - there's still stock at distributors. And likely on shelves.

When it sells out at distributors, then it is backordered.

It is completely normal for a publisher to wait until they feel there is enough pent-up demand for another printing - increasing the size of the printing to improve per-copy profit (or make it economically viable at all), and then sell it to distributors because the distributors think they can sell the inventory at a high enough rate.

Distributors don't want to keep around books that don't sell very fast, because that means they don't have warehouse space for books that do sell quickly. And if they have books that don't sell and need the warehouse space, the books might get remaindered (sold to a low-budget distributor for sale at well below original price) or destroyed (cover stripped as proof of destruction and the rest destroyed/recycled.)

Things have changed with digital press technology improvements, opening the door to more print-on-demand books - but printing one copy will never be anywhere close to as cheap as printing, say, 1000 copies.

There are also other reasons it might not be for sale, despite the author trying / wanting to sell it.

If you know nothing about how book printing, publishing, distribution, buying, and retail works - you probably shouldn't be forming opinions on how it should be subject to radically different regulation, much less offering them up.

https://pinestatepublicity.substack.com/p/book-distribution-...

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#212
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a lawyer? Can you point to the relevant statutes? I don't ask this flippantly as there exist many forms (private / public / academic) of library which allow for both physical and digital lending of owned assets and are not subject to lawsuits like this. It's not at all obvious that IA's interpretation of the law is in error.

The relevant statute provision is 17 U.S.C. § 501. On March 24, 2023, the Internet Archive was found liable for copyright infringement under that section by a federal court, in an order granting a motion for a summary judgment.[0] A summary judgment means that there is no genuine dispute about facts, and the plaintiffs (the people suing the Internet Archive) are entitled to a judgment as a matter of law.[1] It is you…

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Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#213

This is sad. If this was indeed copyright infringement, what was the rationale behind the Internet Archive initially adding these books? The Internet Archive has never been a pirate site, so there must have been some logic or justification for indexing these books.

> what was the rationale behind the Internet Archive initially adding these books

They believed they had the legal right to distribute the books.

You can read the whitepaper about it here: https://controlleddigitallending.org/whitepaper/

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#214

There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge. Perhaps these schemes made sense in the past but with the advent of the internet and independent groups willing to fund all hosting fees, we should move to models of publishing that do not require this restriction of information. Library genesis exists but necessarily mu…

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Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#215

There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge. Perhaps these schemes made sense in the past but with the advent of the internet and independent groups willing to fund all hosting fees, we should move to models of publishing that do not require this restriction of information. Library genesis exists but necessarily mu…

Feel free to start, just don't force anyone into it, and take a honest look at past examples and their outcomes.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#216
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a deeply unserious way to frame this; it presumes the unnatural (even if useful/positive) present state of copyright as a naturally occurring thing. It ain't. "Why should we lessen or diminish the legal right of authors to control how copies of their work are distributed; the way we've been doing it works well." is what you SHOULD have said. Doesn't sound as sexy, but here, the accuracy matters.

I didn't say the current system worked well, but neither was the parent post critiquing just the current system, but "purposeful restriction" in general. Accuracy matters.

I'm curious about the argument that is framed with "it presumes the unnatural (even if useful/positive) present state of copyright as a naturally occurring thing."

I don't think this should be discounted so quickly. Nothing in this domain — money, private property, laws, justice — are obviously naturally occurring things. One of the great traditions in the effort to understand how rights and value come to be is the creation of narratives that connect the rights to early natural states. We see this in Locke, Rousseau, Rawls, etc. You could just ask the question of whether the current state "works well", but then you are in the wheelhouse of Jeremy Bentham and other utilitarians. Fine, but so far these kinds of arguments don't lead to worlds many of us like.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe in hundreds, maybe thousands of years, after humanity has finally evolved past our current monkey mentality, future historians will look back at this time period in awe: "They had the technology to make the sum of all human knowledge available to everyone... And they blew it! Further, they had the means to feed everyone, clothe everyone, house everyone, but they just walked away in the other direction, pure…

Europeans and Americans are now taxing green technology, which they said in the past they want, because it is built in another country...

Chinese cars? really?

They are at best a hazard.

The Chinese government dumped tons of money into every one of those cars, they are being sold at a loss. Not because it's good for any one, rather because china fucked up.

Every single one of those cars is a state funded fire hazard about to go on the road.

EDITL: cause looking up data is hard apparently:

western data:

https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/electric-car-f...

The data we see from china: https://news.metal.com/newscontent/101781161/there-are-about...

The anti china reporting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMKpCiDomgM

Do note, that were talking about a nation that will happily NOT report on stats like youth employment when its bad, so take what you read with more than a few grains of salt.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#218

There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge. Perhaps these schemes made sense in the past but with the advent of the internet and independent groups willing to fund all hosting fees, we should move to models of publishing that do not require this restriction of information. Library genesis exists but necessarily mu…

Why should an author be forced to give away their work for free? They can already choose to give it away for free if they wish. We already have the Creative Commons licenses, and there are many open textbook projects.

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Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans and Americans are now taxing green technology, which they said in the past they want, because it is built in another country...

Chinese cars? really? They are at best a hazard. The Chinese government dumped tons of money into every one of those cars, they are being sold at a loss. Not because it's good for any one, rather because china fucked up. Every single one of those cars is a state funded fire hazard about to go on the road. EDITL: cause looking up data is hard apparently: western data: https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/elec…

do you have any evidence that they're more prone to fire than any other EVs?
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