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What can LLMs never do?

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Re: What can LLMs never do?

#211
post #206

>What can LLMs never do? Produce convincingly bad digital paintings. I teach digital painting. Some of the students have incorporated AI into their working process, which I support. Others have tried to cheat by simply copying AI generated output. Such cases are super-easy to spot: they carry the visual signature of AI art (which are mostly scrappings from artstation). This visual signature seems impossible to overri…

They can't even produce high profile art. Thankfully, and they won't be able to in the next 10 years. Thankfully.

Re: What can LLMs never do?

#212
I’ve been trying to get all the LLMs to do the same thing with the same lack of success.

I keep thinking there could be a way to iteratively train an LLM with declarative prompts, but as the article points out, it’s the chicken and egg problem. The LLM can’t provide a response unless it already knows the answer.

However, I believe this barrier will eventually be overcome. Just not anytime soon.

Re: What can LLMs never do?

#213

If we're trying to quantify what they can NEVER do, I think we'd have to resort to some theoretical results rather than a list empirical evidence of what they can't do now. The terminology you'd look for in the literature would be "expressibility". For a review of this topic, I'd suggest: https://nessie.ilab.sztaki.hu/~kornai/2023/Hopf/Resources/st... The authors of this review have themselves written several article…

Neural nets can approximate any function. A large enough llm with memory is turning complete. So theoretically I don’t think there is anything they can never do.

There's all sorts of things a neural net isn't doing without a body. Giving birth or free soloing El Capitan come to mind. It could approximate the functions for both in token-land, but who cares?

Re: What can LLMs never do?

#214
post #206

>What can LLMs never do? Produce convincingly bad digital paintings. I teach digital painting. Some of the students have incorporated AI into their working process, which I support. Others have tried to cheat by simply copying AI generated output. Such cases are super-easy to spot: they carry the visual signature of AI art (which are mostly scrappings from artstation). This visual signature seems impossible to overri…

that's an interesting statement, i've always considered experts to be people who can do things simultaneously better and worse than a beginner my favorite example is when a great dancer who tries to mockingly mimic a bad dancer still looks good and does it hilariously

> I've always considered experts to be people who can do things simultaneously better and worse than a beginner

I agree. This reminds me of the so-called school of kung fu called drunken master. There can be a can't-give-a-fuck about someone who is at the peak of their abilities.

Re: What can LLMs never do?

#215
post #14

Fantastic essay. Highly recommended! I agree with all key points: * There are problems that are easy for human beings but hard for current LLMs (and maybe impossible for them; no one knows). Examples include playing Wordle and predicting cellular automata (including Turing-complete ones like Rule 110). We don't fully understand why current LLMs are bad at these tasks. * Providing an LLM with examples and step-by-step…

> There are problems that are easy for human beings but hard for current LLMs (and maybe impossible for them; no one knows). Examples include playing Wordle and predicting cellular automata (including Turing-complete ones like Rule 110). We don't fully understand why current LLMs are bad at these tasks.

Wordle and cellular automata are very 2D, and LLMs are fundamentally 1D. You might think "but what about Chess!" - except Chess is encoded extremely often as a 1D stream of tokens to notate games, and bound to be highly represented in LLMs' training sets. Wordle and cellular automata are not often, if ever, encoded as 1D streams of tokens - it's not something an LLM would be experienced with even if they had a reasonable "understanding" of the concepts. Imagine being an OK chess player, being asked to play a game blindfolded dictating your moves purely via notation, and being told you suck.

> Providing an LLM with examples and step-by-step instructions in a prompt means the user is figuring out the "reasoning steps" and handing them to the LLM, instead of the LLM figuring them out by itself. We have "reasoning machines" that are intelligent but seem to be hitting fundamental limits we don't understand.

You have probably heard of this really popular game called Bridge before, right? You might even be able to remember tons of advice your Grandma gave you based on her experience playing it - except she never let you watch it directly. Is Grandma "figuring out the game" for you when she finally sits down and teaches you the rules?

Re: What can LLMs never do?

#217
So many of these examples are simply forgetting that LLMs experience the world through a 1-dimensional stream of tokens, while we experience those same tokens in 2 dimensions.

Try this: represent all those ASCII representations of games with the letter Q replacing the newline, to properly convert the encoding into a representation approximating what LLMs "see" (not a table, but a stream interspersed with Qs at a regular interval). Pretty hard right?

> LLMs cannot reset their own context

If you have a model hooked up to something agentic, I don't see why it couldn't perform context manipulation on itself or even selective realtime finetuning. Think you'll need info for the long haul, kick off some finetuning. Think you'd rather have one page of documentation in context than other, swap them out in one iteration. When you call LLMs over APIs you usually provide the entire context with each invocation...

> Devin

It's not that it's massively smarter or agentic, just that it has the opportunity to correct its mistakes rather than committing to the first thing to come out of it (and is being handheld by a vastly more knowledgable SWE in its demos). You see cherrypicked examples (I also work on GenAI-for-coding) - just like a tragically incompetent employee could waste literal years on a project diligently plugging away at some task, so too can agentic models go off on a wild goose chase that accomplishes nothing besides making Nvidia more money. Just because something is highly persistent doesn't mean it will "converge" on a correct outcome.

Re: What can LLMs never do?

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "reasoning" they do is really just parroting a weighted average (with randomness injected) of the matching training data Perhaps our brains are doing exactly the same, just with more sophistication?

Every single discussion of ‘AGI’ has endless comments exactly like this. Whatever criticism is made of an attempt to produce a reasoning machine, there’s always inevitably someone who says ‘but that’s just what our brains do, duhhh… stop trying to feel special’. It’s boring, and it’s also completely content-free. This particular instance doesn’t even make sense: how can it be exactly the same , yet more sophisticated…

As the comment I replied to very correctly said, we don’t know how the brain produces cognition. So you certainly cannot discard the hypothesis that it works through “parroting” a weighted average of training data just as LLMs are alleged to do.

Considering that LLMs with a much smaller number of neurons than the brain are in many cases producing human-level output, there is some evidence, if circumstantial, that our brains may be doing something similar.

Re: What can LLMs never do?

#219
> If there exist classes of problems that someone in an elementary school can easily solve but a trillion-token billion-dollar sophisticated model cannot solve, what does that tell us about the nature of our cognition?

I think what it tells us is that our cognition is capable of more than just language modeling. With LLMs we are discovering (amazing) capabilities and the limits of language models. While language models can do incredible things with language that humans can't, they still can't do something simple like sudoku. But there are neural networks, CNNs and RNNs that can solve sudoku better than humans can. I think that the thing to learn here is that some problems are in the domain of language models, and some problems are a better fit for other forms of cognition. The human brain is amazing in that it combines several forms of cognition in an integrated way.

One thing that I think LLMs have the capability to do is to integrate several types of systems and to choose the right one to solve a problem. Teach an LLM how to interface with a CNN that solves sudoku problems, and then ask it a sudoku problem.

It seems to me that if we want to create an AGI, we need to learn how to integrate several different types of models, and teach them how to distribute the tasks we give them to the correct models.

Re: What can LLMs never do?

#220

"The models, in other words, do not well generalise to understand the relationships between people." Curiously, the need to do this well - handling the quadratic complexity of a shifting set of human relationships, grudges, and alliances - is thought to be one of the things that led is to higher levels of intelligence.

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