The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists • Hacker News Board

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#211

Post by therealdrag0 » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:09 AM UTC

imzadi wrote: post #65

I don't know if this is related, but growing up there were certain values instilled in me that went something like "don't toot your own horn," "it's better to be seen and not heard," "keep your head down," etc. The main gist being that I should just do my job quietly, competently, and stay out of the way. In practice, this resulted in me being effectively invisible to management, even when I was out-performing everyo…

Congrats you don’t have a micromanager. But the flip side of that is you need to check in with them. That’s both of your fault, but you can only control you. You should at least have a “win/impact” document where you track what you’ve done and share with your manager.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#212

Post by financltravsty » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:09 AM UTC

sevagh wrote: post #183

bena wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Highly sensitive person". Basically hypervigilant

Were they also a Virgo? What Harry Potter house did they get on an online quiz? What about INFJ or ENTJ on the Briggs-Meyer scale?

It's real, but the umbrella term is very much hokie. You can sometimes see it in ADHD or autism: hyperawareness of stimulus and a nervous system that pattern matches quickly.

I have something similar. Very easy to burnout, when you're constantly being flooded by information of which you see the long-term consequences of, know how to orient and navigate to avoid, but do not have the resources to handle (e.g. time, money, energy, etc.).

Or being hyperaware of everyone's micro-expressions and what they're feeling. Too much info, and I don't have any care to spare to deal with it (even though that I want to).

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#213

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:14 AM UTC

luisgvv wrote: post #7

I began as a junior dev and climbed up the ranks til the point where I became the SME in some areas of the product. Got laid off because sales goals were not met while they retained people which I think were incompetent in their work. Even some guys which I think were better and more critical to the projects were dumped. I'm not climbing that ladder by being proactive and "pragmatic" again... Call me a paycheck steal…

Sounds similar to me. I didn't get laid off though, and my climb was only one actual promotion even though I was filling a tech lead position. I managed to switch teams right before the layoff/outsourcing. I tried hard on the next team and again achieved a great reputation in the department. But it meant nothing and I got nowhere. I even had a few people in the department ask why I was taking a demotion out of the group - I wasn't, they all just thought I was a higher level than I actually was... fuck the system.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#214

Post by therealdrag0 » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:14 AM UTC

NateEag wrote: post #63

This is an appealing narrative without evidence. How does the author know Marias make up the majority of most companies? Where's the data supporting that claim? It may be true - it sounds plausible to those of us who've been a Maria in the salt mines of a dysfunctional company. It appeals to us to think we're the hidden gems the company needs to invest in. Something being appealing doesn't make it true, though, even…

I don’t know how to out this “correctly”. But some of these developer complains remind me of the whole “incel” situation, where people rather complain about how the world works instead of improving themselves or learning how to excel in it.

Sure some people are conflict adverse, but some conflict aversion is healthy (there shouldn’t be physical or verbal fights at work) while some is being introverted or on the spectrum or lazy to a degree that the rest of the world shouldn’t be expected to bend to.

The way the author puts it I’m not even sure what the untapped potential even is. They describe these 75% as “doing what they can”. Okay so they’re just worker bees. That’s fine. What’s the problem?

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#215

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:16 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #173

ghaff wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a comment on some other thread but there's just a lot of wrong place/wrong time at an individual level. If a company is doing a substantial layoff there just isn't the time, energy, or resources to train and fit people who may be generically "better" at some level into roles that already have people presumably doing adequate jobs filling them. People are not fungible. Someone can be in a role where they're re…

Ok then why do we still have recruiters and HR? If their job is impossible why do we pay them to pretend otherwise? If people aren’t fungible why do we force them into fungible roles? If the reality is that people are fungible and leadership is just out of touch and made bad decisions then they’re the ones that should be canned. Hiring people is expensive. Firing people is expensive. Reorganizing people requires comp…

"Ok then why do we still have recruiters and HR? If their job is impossible why do we pay them to pretend otherwise?"

The same reason many devs exist - people convinced them it's better or more convenient to have an expert. The number of systems that could be an excel sheet...

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#216

Post by Seb-C » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:21 AM UTC

rybosworld wrote: post #137

gopher_space wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a pretty common attitude. That is, "I'm able to pick better workplaces than you are". It's more about not applying to certain jobs, or cancelling the process after the first red flag. > You cannot with any certainty tell what a work environment is like in the interview stage. Sure I can. But I might have been at it for a decade or two longer than you have. Folks on HN talk about the warning signs and red fl…

Guessing with a higher accuracy is still guessing.

By that definition, nothing is a choice because nothing is 100% certain in life.

Even for something as simple as deciding to "go shopping" tomorrow, there is some probability that it does not happen. But it is still my decision to do so.

The only way to never fail is to never try. But it means you will never win either.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#217

Post by bradleyjg » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:24 AM UTC

chinchilla2020 wrote: post #155

toomuchtodo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you have a clear exit plan outside scaling the so-called ladder Exit plan is FIRE. Everything else is circus and performance art. Others can play status games, I prefer wealth games: wealth is options and options are freedom. Pragmatic, smart, skilled people are extracted from unless lucky and in a position to see outsized returns from their effort. Better to know what enough is, collect enough freedom coins, an…

I had a bit of an epiphany when I read this comment since you hit the nail on the head so succinctly. Wealth is the only true path that gives you options. All other paths are dependent on income. There really is no other exit plan except financial security. Every other plan is just putting you into the walls a new rat maze.

You don’t need a ton of options. You can’t live fifty different lives.

Aggressive FIRE makes a ton of sense for the few people that know early what they want out of life. If you want to spend your life surfing by all means, work the system to the hilt (leetcode, job hopping, etc.) and retire by 30.

But a lot of people that go down that road get to 30 and find that they have no clue what makes them happy to begin with. Fairy tales for upper middle class young adults notwithstanding, travel doesn’t magically impart this or any other wisdom either.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#218

Post by fortani » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:25 AM UTC

"I divide my officers into four groups. There are clever, diligent, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and diligent — their place is the General Staff. The next lot are stupid and lazy — they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the intellectual clarity and the composure necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is stupid and diligent — he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always cause only mischief."

Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord

This is an interesting quote from a WWII General. So "skilled pragmatists" seems to map to what Kurt terms as clever and lazy. But it also means that most people are lazy and stupid.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#219

Post by sojournerc » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:29 AM UTC

luisgvv wrote: post #7

I began as a junior dev and climbed up the ranks til the point where I became the SME in some areas of the product. Got laid off because sales goals were not met while they retained people which I think were incompetent in their work. Even some guys which I think were better and more critical to the projects were dumped. I'm not climbing that ladder by being proactive and "pragmatic" again... Call me a paycheck steal…

I was layed off after being burnt out on exactly what you're describing. The organization lost 5 years of deep institutional knowledge into their systems that I designed because i couldn't get buy in on what I thought was important.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#220

Post by fortani » Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 1:39 AM UTC

NateEag wrote: post #63

This is an appealing narrative without evidence. How does the author know Marias make up the majority of most companies? Where's the data supporting that claim? It may be true - it sounds plausible to those of us who've been a Maria in the salt mines of a dysfunctional company. It appeals to us to think we're the hidden gems the company needs to invest in. Something being appealing doesn't make it true, though, even…

I left a comment elsewhere on this thread, but here's an interesting quote by General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord, an anti-Nazi WWII general.

"I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental clarity and strength of nerve necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is both stupid and hardworking; he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always only cause damage."

So according to him, most people seem to fall into the bucket of being lazy and stupid, which is closer to reality. "Skilled pragmatists" seem to map into what he terms "clever and lazy".