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Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

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Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#211

Post by jojobas »

jjwiseman wrote: post #204
FpUser wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"There's some reluctance to say it's Russia doing the jamming, though that seems to be the consensus among experts." Why the reluctance? I do not think there is much love lost in regards to Russia.

Well, if you identify them then you might have to do something about it. But it's not clear there's much to be done. Sometimes it's easier to deny or just not mention that someone is acting in a hostile way. The example I often think of is Iran firing missiles at U.S. warships during Operation Praying Mantis, and then, as Wikipedia puts it: "The Pentagon and the Reagan Administration later denied that any Silkworm mi…

The situation with Russia is well past escalation by accusation of civil aircraft jamming. After all, they've pretty much stolen all planes they had under lease from Western owners.

Appeasement of someone like Putin is always a mistake.

So far every time the West calls his bluff he cowardly pretends nothing happened, be it HIMARS, Storm Shadow and HARM missile shipments, tank shipments, AWACS support, you name it.

He only attacked Ukraine because he hoped to win in a week, and this wouldn't have happened if the West armed Ukraine earlier. The desire not to escalate with Putin cost Europe a war.

Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#212

Post by obdev »

skissane wrote: post #209
obdev wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkish Government has had many high-ranking Kurdish officials, including multiple presidents and prime ministers. There have been more Kurds served in the Turkish Army than all the other armed organizations combined. Majority of Kurds in Turkey openly support the Turkish Government, especially against the PKK terror. Several Kurdish organizations in Iraq, Syria, and Iran support the Turkish Government, especially ag…

According to Wikipedia [0]: > The Kurdish language was banned in a large portion of Kurdistan for some time. After the 1980 Turkish coup d'état until 1991 the use of the Kurdish language was illegal in Turkey.[52] > Before August 2002, the Turkish government placed severe restrictions on the use of Kurdish, prohibiting the language in education and broadcast media.[55][56] In March 2006, Turkey allowed private televi…

In the 1980s, Iraqi Kurds were fleeing to Turkey for freedom and safety. The Prime Minister was of Kurdish origin. You could hear people speak Kurdish freely anywhere between the west and east end of the country.

There were no "anti-Kurdish" laws and policies. The pro-American coup d'état in 1980 came with a law to control non-Turkish publications, but it was never put into action.

Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#213

Post by underdeserver »

rafram wrote: post #197
underdeserver wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Northern Israel is completely jammed. There's talk of Israelis getting matched on Tinder with women from Beirut.

That’s because Beirut is 60 miles from northern Israel and Tinder’s max is 100 miles IIRC. These are small countries we’re talking about here. Phones don’t use GPS these days if they can help it - WiFi triangulation is significantly faster and uses much less battery - so GPS jamming wouldn’t have anything to do with Tinder matches.

This didn't happen before the war started.

Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#214

Post by wkat4242 »

Maxion wrote: post #125
wkat4242 wrote: post #119

What if this Russian jamming crap causes another major loss of life like MH17? We really have to do something about this.

Airplanes don't need GPS to fly. Jamming GPS won't cause any crashes.

We're actually replacing a lot of VORs for GPS nav and GPS approaches are also a thing.

Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#215

Post by wkat4242 »

jajko wrote: post #157
wkat4242 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They violated NATO airspace a lot with their "Bear" nuclear-capable bombers until very recently. Not sure if it's still happening. It was so frequent that it didn't make the news every time.

The idea that russians are doing these things 'by accident' ain't even funny, just dangerously naive and nobody from intelligence community thinks so. They know damn well what they do and its well planned and even heroic in some childish fashion in their f*cked up mindset. They are at war with west (more Europe than US though) for solid 2 decades straight, just that they started to use military only in last decade, b…

I never said it was by accident. It surely isn't.

Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#216

Post by tjoff »

jjwiseman wrote: post #190
phire wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do aircraft systems really only use GPS" I know older long-range planes from the 70s and 80s had excellent inertial navigation systems. Not quite as good as GPS, but good enough to know the location of the plane within a few nautical miles. The main problem is that inertial navigation systems drifted over time and required constant recalibration from the crew whenever they had a fix from real navigation beacons and…

They do that! Unfortunately, they don't always know when they're being spoofed, so oops, your inertial reference system has just been infected by the spoofed location and now both nav systems are hosed. https://ops.group/blog/gps-spoof-attacks-irs/ https://aerospace.honeywell.com/us/en/about-us/blogs/spoofin...

Though shouldn't be that hard to know if you are being spoofed. You probably have a decent idea of how much the IRS drifts and any large deviations from that or unexpected jumps in GPS should be noted and possibly, maybe manually, rolled-back so that the IRS only considers data before that point.

I understand that current civilian aircraft wasn't designed with that in mind though.

Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#217

Post by throwmenow99 »

traceroute66 wrote: post #54
AdamH12113 wrote: post #47

The data is taken from aircraft [EDIT: not airlines; see traceroute66's comment], so it doesn't give full coverage of the world, but it does include other satellite navigation systems aside from just GPS. Looks like the jammed/interfered areas are: * A large part of Eastern Europe around Ukraine is missing data, and there are many jammed/interfered areas around it, including the southern coast of the Black Sea and pa…

> The data is taken from airlines No. It is not. The data is ADS-B data which is broadcast by aircraft. FR24 (and other similar services) obtain the data via a community[1], you can take part too[2]. For certain parts of the world, they may have the option to augment the data via commercial services, but that is highly unlikely to be on a global basis. Conclusion: Missing coverage means no community coverage in that…

Probably better to support a non-commercial ADS-B tracking site. Contribute: https://airplanes.live/get-started/ Gear: https://store.airplanes.live/ API: https://airplanes.live/api-guide/

FR24 is a bit of farce as their blocking and removal of 1000's of aircraft makes the data picture incomplete. Plus it's kinda of a money hungry commercial enterprise. Same reason that Raytheon bought FlightAware and Silversmith Capital Partners via JETNET bought ADSBexchange -DATA = CASH - the later buyout is going to court because they apparently stole IP from the company that built the infrastructure. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23963235-golden-hamm... - wild stuff in there!

Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#218

Post by tjmc »

_kb wrote: post #201
Reason077 wrote: post #144

Most of these GPS-jammed zones are, obviously, near areas of active conflicts (Ukraine, Myanmar, Isreal/Palestine, Kashmir, etc). But what's going on in Western Australia? And South-west Texas?

WA may be the radio quiet zone: https://www.industry.gov.au/science-technology-and-innovatio...

That was my guess too. Apparently Starlink satellites go quiet over the area too but there is still some detectable EMF.

Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#219

Post by dfworks »

flyinghamster wrote: post #183
dfworks wrote: post #89

If anyone found the above interesting, I wrote a short article mapping plane activity on FlightRadar's 'blocked' list (i.e FlightRadar had agreed to remove the ADBS data from their dataset following probable legal pressure). https://dfworks.xyz/blog/hnwi-osint-private-jet/ Slightly tangential so feel free to remove if irrelevant

That's LADD (Limited Aircraft Data Displayed), which requires that aircraft marked as such in the FAA's database to be removed from the official data feeds used by the commercial flight radar sites. Crowdsourced data isn't subject to LADD, so adsbexchange and other such sites can and do display such aircraft. For flights within the US, there's also a private address program that allows an ADS-B equipped plane to broa…

Every day is a learning day!

Re: Flightradar24's new GPS jamming map

#220

Post by dfworks »

araes wrote: post #155
dfworks wrote: post #89

If anyone found the above interesting, I wrote a short article mapping plane activity on FlightRadar's 'blocked' list (i.e FlightRadar had agreed to remove the ADBS data from their dataset following probable legal pressure). https://dfworks.xyz/blog/hnwi-osint-private-jet/ Slightly tangential so feel free to remove if irrelevant

The article was interesting alone, simply for the Google Dork technique explanation. Have not heard the "unusual, yet specifically frequent" search technique described that way previously. Very similar to what's necessary for searching StackExchange and similar, such as "site: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/ tracking private planes" The Bombardier Global Express 6000 GLT6 result is interesting, as it's a plane wi…

Yep, British for my sins, as a US soldier once described to me, we are your least worst enemy
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