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Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

construction-physics.com

211–220 of 799 posts

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm speaking only to overall property values, because that's the argument I was replying to. I don't care about your preferences.

I am responding to your first sentence, which is "Upzoning is a win-win for existing homeowners", which is not true in general.

It is true in the sense that I meant it, about property values.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#212
post #16

Of course timber won't fix the housing shortage. The housing shortage is artificial. There are plenty of empty units across the country. It's a distribution issue of: owners holding vacant units, people wanting/needing to live in specific locations, and individual preferences for bigger, fancier, better school, sfh, etc attributes. With an almost stagnate population growth this isn't really a building issue even if i…

Owners holding vacant units is not a significant cause of the housing shortage. Overly restrictive zoning and subjective reviews exploited by NIMBYs explains almost all of it.

"Overly restrictive zoning and subjective reviews exploited by NIMBYs explains almost all of it."

You seem to be ignoring the main part of my statement - distribution and preferences matter. "NIMBYs" can't be a retort to that when NIMBY is by definition local - there are many other areas to build in across the country.

"Owners holding vacant units is not a significant cause of the housing shortage."

It may not be the biggest cause, but it is "significant". It is more pronounced in some markets and sectors (apartments).

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#213
post #177

It takes significantly less materials to build a multi-dwelling apartment/condo/townhouse structure than a single family home. In addition, the required square footage per person drops by huge amounts when people can walk to nearby community centers, restaurants, kitchens, theaters, and bars. We are building massive 3-4k sq. ft. homes for families of four because all of their food, entertainment, and social needs are…

I know it's hard to believe that many people are simply happier living in their own single family home and have little desire for the urban lifestyle.

Oh, I believe it. That's great! I don't mind that people who want to live like that CAN live like that if they can afford it. But it should not be the ONLY way people can live. Right now our laws prevent us from building affordable and livable homes like I mentioned above. Only the richest get to live in such communities.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#214

Obviously someone who is familiar with the field but it's kind of strange that they compare these two technologies since they aren't used for the same construction. You've not going to use glulam and CLT to build your one story house. It's about building taller places.

Actually CLT is wonderful for one story house. The foundation becomes much cheaper because of walls being low weight. This can massively reduce home cost (as concrete is expensive). The bad thing is that CLT itself is more expensive. The costs need to go down. Edit: I realize I made a mistake here. Americans use stick framing, which already is low weight. This was in reference to bricks and concrete (cast on site or pre-cast) construction. CLT allows to use its members much like concrete (slabs get mounted exactly same way as concrete slabs, etc). In such sense CLT is much better than stick framing.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's hard to believe that many people are simply happier living in their own single family home and have little desire for the urban lifestyle.

which is fine, if they are willing to pay the full cost of it. suburbia is massively subsidized.

It’s not though, this is one of those “we take less taxes if you pay mortgage interest” type arguments. That isn’t subsidizing.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which is fine, if they are willing to pay the full cost of it. suburbia is massively subsidized.

Is it? Those same people work and pay taxes. If they couldn’t live in a city due to cost that city would have less revenue as a result of fewer employed people buying goods and services.

>work and pay taxes

Implying that particular city job isn't subsidized. Bullshit jobs are mostly city jobs

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which is fine, if they are willing to pay the full cost of it. suburbia is massively subsidized.

> suburbia is massively subsidized That's a common argument that no one has been able to sufficiently prove.

The results of multiple studies have validated this claim:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53dd6676e4b0fedfbc26e...

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#218
post #188

I am building a house in a rural area, where land is cheap. Building is not. Timber is certainly expensive, but you know what else costs a lot? All the other stuff, much of it subject to state building codes that get more restrictive every year. Asbestos survey, assessment, abatement: $10k Asbestos air monitoring: $1k Tipping fees: 20k Spray foam insulation: $27k Foundation $50k Solar: 40k (not including rebates/ince…

> Tipping fees What is a tipping fee

Waste disposal. Construction and remodeling both produce huge amounts of waste and it needs to be disposed of in specific ways.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#219
post #191

I am building a house in a rural area, where land is cheap. Building is not. Timber is certainly expensive, but you know what else costs a lot? All the other stuff, much of it subject to state building codes that get more restrictive every year. Asbestos survey, assessment, abatement: $10k Asbestos air monitoring: $1k Tipping fees: 20k Spray foam insulation: $27k Foundation $50k Solar: 40k (not including rebates/ince…

If you are building from scratch, why do you need an asbestos survey? What are you surveying? And does your state really require spray foam insulation and solar? Or does it require an R-value for insulation and spray foam is the easiest way to get there with your design?

Demolition of existing structures from the 1920s and 1970s.

R-value required. This was the easiest/least expensive option.

Solar not required. If we didn't do it, we're paying ~$5k for power every year.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#220
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's hard to believe that many people are simply happier living in their own single family home and have little desire for the urban lifestyle.

Oh, I believe it. That's great! I don't mind that people who want to live like that CAN live like that if they can afford it. But it should not be the ONLY way people can live. Right now our laws prevent us from building affordable and livable homes like I mentioned above. Only the richest get to live in such communities.

> Right now our laws prevent us from building affordable and livable homes

Which laws are those?

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