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Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

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Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#211

Post by archagon »

liampulles wrote: post #96

Its striking to me that there seems to be a segment of the population now that think that a company should behave like a democracy. I'd be very interested to see research about how this kind of viewpoint has changed over time, at what kind of companies it is more or less prevalent at, etc. I find this viewpoint astonishing personally, but that might have to do with my upbringing and cultural background.

The fact that we tolerate these pseudo-feudal corporate silos within our nominally democratic systems is what's bizarre to me. I live in a democracy and yet most of my day-to-day decisions are governed by an unapproachable billionaire C-suite. Why?

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#212

Post by lordfrito »

archagon wrote: post #208
lordfrito wrote: post #125

Lately it seems that more and more rank-and-file employees believe that a company has some sort of moral obligation to take their political opinions into consideration. Corporations aren't democracies. Unless you're an executive or high ranking decision maker, you're along for the ride. I don't ask my kids for their opinion about my home budget, what house I should buy, etc. So it is at work. Expecting a company to k…

If enough employees want it to be so, a company can certainly be coerced into becoming more democratic.

Coerced is the operative word here. Employers don't have to accommodate your political beliefs (outside of what the law requires). If you and your friends have enough power, you can try and wield it. Buy shares and get your voice heard at the stockholders meeting. Your mileage may vary. Not everyone has the coercive power of say, Elon Musk.

This person sacrificed their job to draw attention to their pet issue. What did they expect to happen? Google was going to stop the event and sit down with the employee and negotiate? Google has a disruptive employee, that is costing them more money than they are making them, and so got rid of them. No ones rights were violated.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#213

Post by CommanderData »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #197
CommanderData wrote: post #12

The engineer refused to be directly complicit in Genocide and we punish him? Irony is we applaud those whom resisted Nazism. Rightly. I invite everyone to read Norman Finelstein whos father was a resistor to Nazism explain the similarities to concentration camps and Gaza. https://theintercept.com/2018/05/20/norman-finkelstein-gaza-...

[flagged]

Zionist hate him especially. Like salt on slugs.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#214

Post by archagon »

lordfrito wrote: post #212
archagon wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If enough employees want it to be so, a company can certainly be coerced into becoming more democratic.

Coerced is the operative word here. Employers don't have to accommodate your political beliefs (outside of what the law requires). If you and your friends have enough power, you can try and wield it. Buy shares and get your voice heard at the stockholders meeting. Your mileage may vary. Not everyone has the coercive power of say, Elon Musk. This person sacrificed their job to draw attention to their pet issue. What d…

I don't have an opinion on this particular incident, but if I work at a company that suddenly starts making military tech, and I find a critical mass of coworkers to unionize with me and protest the decision, then the company will have little choice but to back down.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#215

Post by hayst4ck »

blueflow wrote: post #5

Why is employee dissent such a problem in google and not a problem in other companies?

Because computer science was one of the most in demand fields for many years, attracting the most ambitious and talented undergrads -- that is to say, the average google employee is pretty well educated likely via a liberal education institution.

Those who are educated are more able to clearly understand the consequences of their actions or inactions and understand lack of solidarity for others means lack of solidarity for yourself.

The purpose of liberal education is to teach people how to critically think and build a world that they themselves would like to live in, so when a liberally educated ambitious person realizes that they are contributing to building a lesser world it becomes problematic and they correctly feel a need to take responsibility for building a better future.

Add in a legacy of declaring that "don't be evil" is a founding principle and you are going to find people being pretty upset about being lured in with promises of social responsibility and like-minded peers, only to find an ethically devoid pursuit of next quarters profit that can be found at nearly any company in America.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#216

Post by lordfrito »

3np wrote: post #203
lordfrito wrote: post #125

Lately it seems that more and more rank-and-file employees believe that a company has some sort of moral obligation to take their political opinions into consideration. Corporations aren't democracies. Unless you're an executive or high ranking decision maker, you're along for the ride. I don't ask my kids for their opinion about my home budget, what house I should buy, etc. So it is at work. Expecting a company to k…

“I refuse to build technology that powers genocide.” is not a political consideration, it's an ethical one. The notion that the employer should take ethical concerns into consideration is not a recent trend. Though perhaps the politiciation of it is.

I think there's enough popular disagreement on the issue at hand (Israel's response to Oct 7 attack) to say that for sure this issue is for sure a political one. You can't just handwave "ethics" from your high-horse and expect all the people that disagree with you to backdown.

There is a wide disagreement as to who is at fault and what is to be done here. Stakes are high, people are dying. Resolving that is pretty much the exclusive realm of politics, and (when that fails) warfare.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#217

Post by surgical_fire »

user_7832 wrote: post #177
surgical_fire wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You do not need to act in favor of something if you don't want to publicly oppose it. You can quietly do a shoddy job, for example. But if you value professionalism over human life... I don't really have much to comment on.

I work according to my contract. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you don't know what being a professional means, I don't know what to say.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#218

Post by lordfrito »

archagon wrote: post #214
lordfrito wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coerced is the operative word here. Employers don't have to accommodate your political beliefs (outside of what the law requires). If you and your friends have enough power, you can try and wield it. Buy shares and get your voice heard at the stockholders meeting. Your mileage may vary. Not everyone has the coercive power of say, Elon Musk. This person sacrificed their job to draw attention to their pet issue. What d…

I don't have an opinion on this particular incident, but if I work at a company that suddenly starts making military tech, and I find a critical mass of coworkers to unionize with me and protest the decision, then the company will have little choice but to back down.

Sure... but that's not what happened here. This employee single handedly took matters into their own hands and disrupted a company event.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#219

Post by duxup »

moribvndvs wrote: post #204
duxup wrote: post #34

I'm all for some good old civil disobedience as far as every day choices go in the outside world. However, I also think if you're employed somewhere there are reasonable expectations as far as workplace behavior goes that would prohibit the same "protest" or "civil disobedience" type behavior. It is interesting that the protestor immediately declares that they don't wan to work for such a company. It sorta begs the q…

I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect that because you took a position, you forfeit any rights to decide a company has crossed your ethical line in the sand, or that you shouldn’t use a unique opportunity–even at your own risk–to appeal to other employees and leadership to adjust course. Growing up, I was told by family, mentors, educators that you effect change from within. Protest only when it’s safe and convenie…

I think he can do all you describe, even do it in a way that doesn't get him fired.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#220

Post by surgical_fire »

smashah wrote: post #130
surgical_fire wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Imagine being such a pseudo-contrarian that you say you'd be an employee of the makers of Zyklon B (Tesch and Stabenow/Degesch) with the words "I would, with no regrets". This is "Professionalism" to you, jfc.

There's nothing pseudo, nor contrarian, about my position.

You mistake conformism with a moral position about something.

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