Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management • Hacker News Board

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#211

Post by marcosdumay » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:12 PM UTC

llm_trw wrote: post #82

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #10

What amazes and perplexes me is that Apple thinks it can effectively play politics against the EU and that somehow their customers will back them in the face of the "consequences" Apple applies, which are pretty transparent and really quite amateurish (eg no more web apps for you!). As the article states, the first mistake Apple makes is thinking the EU is somehow like the US, but I can't see how any large proportion…

I think there needs to be a word like "Paris syndrome" for when Americans meet actual Europeans and find out their politics. I've not met anyone who doesn't work in Brussels who thinks the EU isn't a dysfunctional pile of shit. The most spirited defense I've heard of it is "Well at least it keeps the Germans from invading again.". > The EU, it's better than genocide, by a bit - probably. -- Enthusiastic EU supporter,…

That may be a valid point, but notice that the GP wasn't about the EU government, it's about governments in general.

And notice it isn't exactly about how people do think they are good, but it's about how people are open to the idea that it can do good here or there.

Or, in other words, it's a much more nuanced point than the one you are replying to.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#212

Post by denton-scratch » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:12 PM UTC

Jochim wrote: post #148

llm_trw wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there needs to be a word like "Paris syndrome" for when Americans meet actual Europeans and find out their politics. I've not met anyone who doesn't work in Brussels who thinks the EU isn't a dysfunctional pile of shit. The most spirited defense I've heard of it is "Well at least it keeps the Germans from invading again.". > The EU, it's better than genocide, by a bit - probably. -- Enthusiastic EU supporter,…

Most people who aren't working in Brussels have zero idea about how the EU functions at all. Brexit voting towns that were shocked to find various programs shuttered once they got what they'd voted for are a great example of this.

Which towns? Which programmes?

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#213

Post by hef19898 » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:13 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #162

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any lawmaker with an ounce of foresight would have recognized the pervasive cookie banners as the logical consequence of the law. If you give companies an easy copy-and-paste way to get around a single regional law then they will do the quickest dumbest thing possible to get what they want no matter who the visitor is and where they're located. The EU laws are poorly conceived, poorly written, and now we all have to…

[flagged]

One good example for a good website without tracking:

news.ycombinator.com

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#214

Post by dspillett » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:13 PM UTC

mk89 wrote: post #169

yourusername wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually like them. It's eye opening when a a website wants to share your data with their 283 partners.

283? You're talking about a personal blog, right? I have seen 500+. Which is like wtf is going on. I can't even name 500+ companies or websites, who the hell are these companies?

I hit back instantly when I see the Admiral logo. That network IIRC claims >1,500 partners. And last time I bothered looking even though there is a few “no to all” checkboxes you still needed to individually object to “legitimate interest”¹ for most of the companies.

--

[1] which I read as “we see you and your privacy preferences, but fuck you and your preferences we want to stalk you anyway”

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#215

Post by ajuc » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:13 PM UTC

s_dev wrote: post #101

ajuc wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It worked for Putin (see Nord Streams for example) so Trump wanted it too :)

That still needed EU approval. Ireland can sell it's beef to the US at a different rate than other EU countries (all Irish beef is grass fed and thus premium grade) again needs EU approval. The EU doesn't mind exceptions to her rules once it can approve or disapprove of them thus preserving the EU trading bloc. People really do think there is a 'gotcha' though e.g. US President Trump getting schooled by Merkel thinki…

> That still needed EU approval

Half the EU (basically the whole Eastern Europe) protested. Germany did it anyway.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#216

Post by carlosjobim » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:13 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #159

paulsutter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes each time we see these cookie warnings, we admire a system that does so much to our benefit

There are two systems at play when you see a cookie warning: 1. Businesses trying to violate your privacy. 2. A government trying to protect you from said businesses. Either of these entities could avoid the cookie warning, but there are very different reasons why they do not.

If you use government websites within EU countries, most of them have cookie warnings. And a large part of them also use dark patterns to "forget" that you selected "only necessary" cookies each time you visit.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#217

Post by bojan » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:13 PM UTC

mrighele wrote: post #88

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #10

What amazes and perplexes me is that Apple thinks it can effectively play politics against the EU and that somehow their customers will back them in the face of the "consequences" Apple applies, which are pretty transparent and really quite amateurish (eg no more web apps for you!). As the article states, the first mistake Apple makes is thinking the EU is somehow like the US, but I can't see how any large proportion…

> EU citizens haven't been brainwashed into thinking that their government is their enemy I don't think that EU is so homogeneous in this regard. Ask that question to people from Italy and Finland and you will get quite different answers, and rightly so, because Italian and Finnish government, and in general state are quite different.

Ask that question even within Italy or Finland and you're probably going to get different answers.

However, ask an Italian or a Finn about an attitude towards consumers rights, and you're likely to end up with a similar answer.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#218

Post by mjburgess » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:13 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #159

paulsutter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes each time we see these cookie warnings, we admire a system that does so much to our benefit

There are two systems at play when you see a cookie warning: 1. Businesses trying to violate your privacy. 2. A government trying to protect you from said businesses. Either of these entities could avoid the cookie warning, but there are very different reasons why they do not.

and to be clear, the european attitude to this regulation would be, "try again, better this time"

not ah yes, let's go back to having no regulation of corps tracking people.

People would be quite enthusiastic to more regulation which required no cookie banners where users had, eg., expressed a preference for no tracking at the browser level. And likewise, to require the provision of such "no-tracking signals".

I suspect something like this is on the horizon, and in part, something google was trying to head-off with its 3rd party cookies stuff.

"more, better!"

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#219

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:13 PM UTC

llm_trw wrote: post #187

Jochim wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people who aren't working in Brussels have zero idea about how the EU functions at all. Brexit voting towns that were shocked to find various programs shuttered once they got what they'd voted for are a great example of this.

Were they? Or did a Yankee journalist write another hit piece about rednecks (with a funny accent to boot) getting what they deserved? At any rate relying on EU programs is a fools errand, they pull them up at the drop of a hat to discipline governments. Imagine if Trump could block all federal spending in California because he didn't like their politics.

[deleted]

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#220

Post by jillesvangurp » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:14 PM UTC

Beretta_Vexee wrote: post #74

A common mistake is to think that the EU is limited to a few large economies (Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Holland), but this is not the case. Ensuring that a Croatian SME can win contracts with the French or Germans is one of the EU's priority objectives. This is how the EU has lifted millions of people out of poverty. This is a very tangible reality. It worked with East Germany, Spain, Poland, the Baltic States a…

The practical implication of this is also that it is a huge market. You can ignore that at your own peril. And another thing is that the EU is inspiring other countries to also change their regulations. In the end what companies need to decide is if they can afford losing and alienating major markets across the globe.

E.g. Apple sells lots of iphones and other hardware in the EU. That should be more valuable than giving themselves preferential treatment in their own store, banning competitors from using their browser on IOS, and other anti competitive things that they are doing. And that's just Apple. Arguably, Google, Amazon, Meta, etc. each have their own issues with regulations in the EU.