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Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

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Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#211
post #189

Based on my experience working in IT on complex projects, it is better to work together in the same room/office, if you have a team that is not all seniors and if you work on a greenfield project where you have a lot of structure to put in place. Often with people that are doing something new to them, they might have a "mental barrier" of doing something new, because there are a lot of things to take into account, an…

> IT on complex projects, it is better to work together in the same room/office I guess it depends. If the most “complex IT projects” out there can work without ever meeting in person so can your team.

Which ones?

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#212

The fundamental issue I see in this debate is a lack of sensibility and nuance in human nature. The whole matter is debated (understandably in a way) on big numbers and averages. I could write a long post but I'll cut it short to this paragraph stating that humans differ. For some commuting is stressful, the offices are noisy and full of distractions and those individuals may thrive in a remote setup. There's people…

Totally agree, since the individual's situation varies so much (both intra-team, in their personal life, and across time) the only conclusion that can be said at a c-suite level is that nothing should be broadly mandated and that teams should have the option to decide on their own about office vs remote.

I hypothesize, however, that a lot of these decisions at a c-suite level have more to do with other considerations, like property investments, headcount, salaries, or (worst of all) egos.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#213
In my opinion is that the decision to be on-site or remote should be made at the team level. A team, that can't perform well onsite won't do any better remotely and vice versa.

# How I know if a team member will perform well remotely:

- They take initiative. They take ownership. They learn how to effectively use different communication tools, and then they use them. They ask questions with the goal of solving problems. They get things done.

# How I know if a team member will perform poorly remotely:

- They wait for others to tell them what to do. They tend to disappear. They don't communicate.

- Turns out that these are shitty traits to have for onsite team members as well.

# How I know if a manager will perform well remotely:

- They would perform well as a remote team member (see above), and have a team capable of working remotely.

- They lead by example, know how to build trust, understand how to set achievable short-term goals that lead up to big longterm successes.

- When questioned during meetings, they build trust, confidence and alignment.

# Some signs that a manager will perform poorly with a remote team:

- They prefer a command and control approach to management.

- They lack respect for their team members' time, experience, capabilities and / or intelligence.

- They are unable to explain problems such the team can help solve them.

- This leads them to micromanage.

- They perceive questions during meetings as a challenge to their authority, which makes look insecure.

A micromanager will see more success from poor performing team members if they're all onsite or, as is often the case, frequently on all day conference calls. A micromanager will also quickly lose their best team members.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#214

How could remote work not be more productive? Most of my friends/colleagues get back at least an hour of their lives each day they don't commute, and they all use the "extra" time to do more work. People wanna work. They just don't wanna sit in traffic, walk through parking lots and ride elevators for an hour every day.

Then your friends should reflect a bit. This study shows that there isn't a positive nor negative effect. If your friends are working additional hours each day when they work from home and they are representative of this study, then they are working more time to be as productive as they used to be.

If they would just use the "extra" time to live their own life, they would probably be just as productive and have additional time to themselves.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#215

The fundamental issue I see in this debate is a lack of sensibility and nuance in human nature. The whole matter is debated (understandably in a way) on big numbers and averages. I could write a long post but I'll cut it short to this paragraph stating that humans differ. For some commuting is stressful, the offices are noisy and full of distractions and those individuals may thrive in a remote setup. There's people…

I would add one major change that the work from home experiment has achieved - its made the opportunity cost of the work commute clear. This is a time cost paid for by the worker. As you stated, this is variable. If you have a short commute, or you like it, or you get some exercise - office is great. If you hate your commute, if its 3 hours in pollution and traffic - not so much. Earlier the position was that WFH was…

I definitely agree here. For most of my career I was fortunate enough to not have a "real" commute. at most a 20 min walk to the office. The worse commute is when it was raining or snowing.

The problem becomes now my home is tied to my work place. If the company moves or I change companies, I have move or stress at a new commute. I did move once during a job change, and it didn't last long.

Another compounding issue is that I like to stay at companies for a long time, 10 years. This is frequently becoming difficult for a number of reasons not entirely in my control.

I wonder if others are in the same situation.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#216

The fundamental issue I see in this debate is a lack of sensibility and nuance in human nature. The whole matter is debated (understandably in a way) on big numbers and averages. I could write a long post but I'll cut it short to this paragraph stating that humans differ. For some commuting is stressful, the offices are noisy and full of distractions and those individuals may thrive in a remote setup. There's people…

> Some people require micro management and constant oversight Aside from having an actual assistant, is this just hypothetical or do you know someone that prefers being micromanaged?

Interns, new employees...

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outsourcing jobs and salaries exploded with COVID. 100k USD annual compensation is insane for many countries. You can get best people overseas for a fraction of US costs, and with no obligation attached to you by labor laws. I'm glad this happens so I can use geographic arbitrage: work for US client but live in nice place in Europe with reasonable costs of living.

I didn't see any change at all personally, I do live in Europe though. The best talents globally are going to be paid at a rough similar level outside of the big tech giants. As we go forward, the monetary gain of outsourcing is trending down, it's already less worth it than 10 years ago. Remote working plays against outsourcing in my opinion, nobody wants to be underpaid, including talents in lower cost of living ar…

>I didn't see any change at all personally, I do live in Europe though.

Depends where in Europe as there's a pretty big divide in the IT labor market in Europe that only grew bigger. Most of the remote-work and outsourcing from the US spilled mostly to Eastern Europe or tax heavens like Netherlands or Ireland or tech hubs like Berlin and Barcelona. The rest of Europe wasn't that much impacted and stagnated.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#218

The fundamental issue I see in this debate is a lack of sensibility and nuance in human nature. The whole matter is debated (understandably in a way) on big numbers and averages. I could write a long post but I'll cut it short to this paragraph stating that humans differ. For some commuting is stressful, the offices are noisy and full of distractions and those individuals may thrive in a remote setup. There's people…

I would add one major change that the work from home experiment has achieved - its made the opportunity cost of the work commute clear. This is a time cost paid for by the worker. As you stated, this is variable. If you have a short commute, or you like it, or you get some exercise - office is great. If you hate your commute, if its 3 hours in pollution and traffic - not so much. Earlier the position was that WFH was…

I absolutely let my employer pay for my commute. Indirectly of course, but my income requirements are dependent on how much hours I have to put into work, which includes my overall time investment. Same with all other costs I have because of work.

That said, time is important to me and I have a 5min commute, 20min if I walk. For that reason I do prefer the office. Better meals and better coffee and nice colleagues.

If employers want to force people into offices, maybe pay them a bonus.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#219
post #202

The fundamental issue I see in this debate is a lack of sensibility and nuance in human nature. The whole matter is debated (understandably in a way) on big numbers and averages. I could write a long post but I'll cut it short to this paragraph stating that humans differ. For some commuting is stressful, the offices are noisy and full of distractions and those individuals may thrive in a remote setup. There's people…

>forming teams with people that by their own nature or preferences will thrive in the setup that's decided So offering people remote work for a 20% TC reduction?

Not across the board, no.

Most companies do this by using a cost of labor index for areas. NYC/SF/Seattle being the highest, and then smaller reductions outside.

Basically you don't want to be in a HCOL (High Cost of Living) remote area with a LCOL (Low cost of Labor)

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add one major change that the work from home experiment has achieved - its made the opportunity cost of the work commute clear. This is a time cost paid for by the worker. As you stated, this is variable. If you have a short commute, or you like it, or you get some exercise - office is great. If you hate your commute, if its 3 hours in pollution and traffic - not so much. Earlier the position was that WFH was…

I absolutely let my employer pay for my commute. Indirectly of course, but my income requirements are dependent on how much hours I have to put into work, which includes my overall time investment. Same with all other costs I have because of work. That said, time is important to me and I have a 5min commute, 20min if I walk. For that reason I do prefer the office. Better meals and better coffee and nice colleagues. I…

It's not the financial cost of the time that's important it's the time itself - it's the requirement to completely go against my internal body clock to be at a location by a socially determined starting time - I start working at 10am usually - from home that means I can get up at 8.30 perhaps- to be in an office that means 6.30 am - I don't want to wake up at that time...
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