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Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

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Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#211

Post by mroche »

bsder wrote: post #177
Aurornis wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and b) a concrete mechanism for prioritising roles for elimination that should feel fair in some way, rather than an opaque "bad performance" reason that does not correlate with the employee's experience. The employee admits having closed zero sales. It doesn't get much more objective than that. They're also relatively new to the company. Unions tend to prioritize tenure over performance anyway, so their relative n…

> The employee admits having closed zero sales. You clearly have no experience in sales--especially enterprise sales. 1) No responsible sales organization is going to let a brand new hire alone with a client under 6 months. 2) You aren't selling shit to enterprise from Mid-November until after the first week of January. 3) She barely had a single quarter to get some company to add her to a budget and close a sale. No…

Took the words right out of my mouth. Being given a 3-month ramp up starting in August _then_ being tasked with accounts to manage in the last month and a half of a calendar year is one of the worst places to be in. The only deals getting closed are those with accounts set for a renewal that won't be questioned. That time period can not be reasonably used for performance metrics of a new hire. It's utterly irresponsible.

/me -> former Red Hat Solution Architect that was given 6 months to go from hired to field ready in assisting two account managers. My RH and technical knowledge was fine, but sales is a completely different beast. I was lucky with my timeline as it gave me a lot of time to breathe, shadow my mentor, and get the two required certs. If it was three instead I would have been in over my head by the end of those 90 days. Every day was effectively being sprayed by a fire hose of information.

And she honestly may have had absolutely horrible luck. I've worked with great accounts, terrible accounts, and then some *poof* accounts. I had more deals than I would have liked get suspended right as ink was about to meet paper due to internal events at the customer.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#212

Post by pizzafeelsright »

bamboozled wrote: post #195
outcoldman wrote: post #188

The thing is... Those two people on the call, I mean... They are just doing their job as well. Don't understand what is the point to actually argue with them. Nothing they can do or change. And yes, Brittany is going to be internet famous for a day. But a lot of people going to watch this video and recognize her on the next loop of interviews. Just not the best solution for this situation. It is just sad to see. And…

They are just doing their job as well. They are, but we could say similar things about cartels, drug smugglers etc.To you they're just criminals, to them, they're trying to survive and just doing their jobs. It doesn't mean it's a noble thing to be doing for a job.

Noble jobs are rare. Doing any job with honor is absolutely possible.

I found the exchange very much "outsourced". The not manager were trying to convey the message. They have no skin except delivering the message in their best manor. They likely were given a script. They didn't make the decisions and were hired to be the buffer for emotions that would naturally develop.

I'm thinking the best way is to quick rip the bandaid. "Your position has been eliminated. Your severance is four months. Your check will be direct deposited today"

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#213

Post by laserlight »

mastermedo wrote: post #122

Additional context: https://twitter.com/TheTranscript_/status/165269146916406886...

When they're selling, it's because the product is good. When they are not, it's because sales people are underperforming. Yeah, great reasoning.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#214

Post by polotics »

steve1977 wrote: post #164
block_dagger wrote: post #10

A similar situation happened to me after 7.5 years at a company where I had been given consistently good feedback and promotions. I was fed the lie that my position was being eliminated when there were active public postings for the same position (Staff Engineer). My access to corporate systems was cut off at 8am with no warning or explanatio. I got a similar cold call from an HR person I had met once by chance. No i…

> Not being able to say goodbye to my coworkers I had known for years was emotionally traumatic. Since something similar happened to me (decades ago), I basically don’t socialize with coworkers anymore, i.e. there is no emotional investment.

This is clearly what brainless managers would want... In reality if you're hoping to create something innovative and different as a team, guess what: you will need to have emotions, likes and dislikes, reach into your intuition. So the status quo is everyone loses.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#215

Post by c0nducktr »

outcoldman wrote: post #188

The thing is... Those two people on the call, I mean... They are just doing their job as well. Don't understand what is the point to actually argue with them. Nothing they can do or change. And yes, Brittany is going to be internet famous for a day. But a lot of people going to watch this video and recognize her on the next loop of interviews. Just not the best solution for this situation. It is just sad to see. And…

Many horrible people are 'just doing their jobs'. Think about it a little longer before justifying a persons actions, or assuming they're above repute.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#216

Post by olalonde »

hpaavola wrote: post #170
olalonde wrote: post #107

Uploading a private conversation with HR to TikTok surely isn't going to help her job hunting. Prospective employers might view such behavior as a red flag... It might even be illegal given that the HR people are likely located in California, a "two-party consent" state.

It's really good that some are ready to do what is right instead of just bending over.

I generally agree with this sentiment, but I'm uncertain about its relevance in this specific case. CloudFlare decided to terminate her employment, what's wrong with that? Unless there's evidence to suggest otherwise, it seems reasonable to assume that their decision was based on letting go of employees who were perceived as the least valuable or lowest performing.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#217

Post by c0nducktr »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #185

From reading other comments here, my opinion might be unpopular. But I think she was extremely rude to those two people who were not required to be as empathetic as they were. (I also don't like people who get angry at waiters for faults of the restaurant)

There was no empathy here, only generic HR platitudes. "Your opinion is valid", etc.

That's not empathy.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#218

Post by jerlam »

evantbyrne wrote: post #139
jerlam wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WARN act only applies to layoffs, and doesn't apply at all to firings.

Wrong. The WARN act does not differentiate between mass firings and mass layoffs of full-time workers. Requirements change once certain firing thresholds are crossed. Firing enough people to cross those thresholds, telling them individually that they are being fired for performance reasons, and not giving advanced notice would be a clear violation. https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ETA/Layoff/pdfs/Worke...

Thanks, I see it now. The document you linked describes three applicable situations for layoffs, but then goes back and says those situations also apply for a bunch of things which are not layoffs.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#219

Post by romanovcode »

ChatGTP wrote: post #110
Aurornis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person in this TikTok admits to having closed zero sales. They're also one of the most junior people on the team (4.5 months). They would be among the first to go under union rules, too. Unions are often worse at prioritizing things like tenure over performance, if anything. But even under those rules she was one of the most junior people. There is basically no situation where a union would have prioritized this…

Stop sticking up for this garbage please. Have some empathy? • Third quarter revenue totaled $335.6 million, representing an increase of 32% year-over-year Do we need to feel sorry for cloudflare or something? She says on the call, or her feedback has been positive, so why should she expect a negative outcome like this? As a junior, she should be given the appropriate and valid feedback so she can learn and improve f…

I mean, not sticking to anything, but if I would hire a sales-person and in 5 months (just before the perm-contract @ 6 months) and they made 0 sales - I would fire that person as well. It's called probation-period for a reason.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#220

Post by danjac »

photonbeam wrote: post #132
koito17 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say so. This video is a perfect demonstration of America's "at-will employment" culture. It's extremely asymmetrical, too. Companies can fire you at any moment, for any reason (with or without cause!)... yet it is considered rude for employees to not provide ample notice when deciding to voluntarily quit.

This needs to change, no more notice

You can totally do this (within the bounds of your contract) but from a career point of view, it's not wise to burn bridges.

There's a lot of talk about "networking" to find jobs or opportunities (like your own startup or freelancing) but one thing networking means is building relationships with people you have worked with in the past. That doesn't mean sucking up, but just being known to be reliable and dependable makes you a safer bet if that person is in a position to hire or recommend you.

That manager or coworker you did a project with a few years ago might have moved on to another company and is someone you can reach out to. If you dropped out of a project mid-way without cause leaving them in the lurch, that's something they are going to remember.

Sometimes of course a job or project can be a nightmare and you want to have nothing to do with those people ever again, which is understandable. But otherwise I would try to be professional as possible and leave options open, and if that means giving your notice and coasting a few weeks, then do so.

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