211–220 of 276 posts
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> So why even bother giving one? Decency? Honesty?
Knowning when to apply honesty is also important. If you tell an ex you left them because they are (fat?), is it honest or is it cruel ?
I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…
According to such law, the company does not need to provide any information as to the reason she was terminated. However, one could argue that it would be a common and professional courtesy to give straight answers.
The only unlawful reasons were if she was terminated for violation of her civil rights based on a few protected classes, was harassed, or if she was retaliated against as part of a few protected activities (whistleblower, jury duty, labor organizing, safety comlaint).
"When an employee feels that they have been terminated, harassed or discriminated against based on their race, religion, gender, color, national origin, ancestry, disability, medical condition, marital status, age (over 40), sexual orientation or denial of family medical leave, they should contact the Department of Fair Employment and Housing at 1-800-884-1684 or at www.dfeh.ca.gov"
Text in full: https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/TerminationOfEmployment.pdf
I wonder if the US will ever get first-world tier labor laws that prevent companies from screwing people over like this. Doesn't seem likely any time soon, but it's so insane how healthcare and everything is tied to an employer and in most places they can just fire you on a whim and not offer severance or anything.
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> I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. In the video she says she was hired August 25th, or 4.5 months ago. She also says she hasn't "closed anything officially", or in other words zero sales. I understand this is an emotionally charged topic, but the unfortunate reality is that being past your ramp-up perio…
I don’t know how tech sales work so I’m speaking from an uneducated place here - but is 4.5 months enough time to close any sales? I imagine that at least a month of that 4.5 months is spent onboarding and shadowing someone else to see how the company handles sales. I also imagine that any tech sales right now are difficult to close given the shrinking customer base due to the number of startups that are folding. And…
Source: https://blog.salesflare.com/saas-sales
From my own experience working adjacent to sales for much of my career: Depending on what customer type and industry she is selling to — say, banking or Federal government sales, or sales of ARR >$1m — some sales cycles could even be superannual.
Note that many deals at Cloudflare are >$100k.
Source c. 2020: https://www.saastr.com/5-interesting-learnings-from-cloudfla...
Yet starter packages of Cloudflare can be as low as $20 to $200 / month ($240 to $2400 annually), though those lower tiers are likely all self-service to begin with; she likely wouldn't even be involved except to qualify them for a bigger follow-on deal size.
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I'm also interested in the responses to your questions, but I would ask something else: are non-tech companies also doing layoffs? I'm not in the US so I'm not really up to date to that.
The layoffs are widespread. For example, Dominos just laid off 1,200 drivers. However discussions about the economy's health become particularly politicaly charged during an election year. So any conversation about the state of the economy, whether it's perceived as good or bad, inevitably carries political implications in this context. Edit: it is not Dominos it is Pizza Hut https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/pizza…
the idea of having in-house delivery people for any place is outdated compared to gig apps probably. You only lose a bit of money by not having your own people.
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> The company wants to try and make more money and one way is eliminating your job. Why is that so personal? God forbid we expect people to be treated with a bit of dignity and given the opportunity to actually say goodbye to their friends and colleagues. Millennials grew up being told over and over “be loyal to a company and they’ll treat you well” and have largely began their careers in an era where it’s clear comp…
I'm a millennial and I'm not naive enough to believe a company has my best interest at heart. This is year 2 of rough layoffs in tech. anyone that didn't see January coming as layoff month is dumb.
I don't understand why Cloudflare can't just be honest and say the reason she got laid off, instead of making up some garbage about her performance. That was her main complaint, and I side with her completely. She was not asking to keep her job, or asking unreasonable questions. If they just explained that it was because the company overhired, or because they needed to reduce costs to keep the company afloat, that wo…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the case of the video, the implication is that she was told she’s being fired for performance, which seems unreasonable as she appears to have just finished training. I think the days of HR giving references with any information are long gone, but I still wouldn’t want to chance having something in my “file” about being let go for performance if that wasn’t the real reason. That and it’s just common decency to not…
> In the case of the video, the implication is that she was told she’s being fired for performance, which seems unreasonable as she appears to have just finished training. She says she was hired 4.5 months ago and that her ramp-up quota period was 3 months long. That's not quite "just finished training". In sales, once your ramp up period is over you're expected to be held to the same performance standards as everyon…
In some places i've worked it most certainly would be, others not so much. I don't know if we have that level of information in this case however.
My background has been in hosting/cloud and I've run and worked within sales teams and its generally been:
Selling $5 dollar a month shared hosting accounts and 50 dollar dedies? Yeah, you should probably have something by the end of your first month after ramp.
Selling 50k+ a month cloud infrastructure and engineering services solutions? You get at LEAST one dud quarter to find your feet after ramp, if due to nothing else other than its a significantly longer lifecycle.
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Genuine question: Do you think that people in countries with strong labour laws are signing up to be literal slaves?
I used to work in the UK. I once worked for a company that had a salesperson that wanted to quit. He was forced to do a non-sales job for thirty days stacking boxes and sorting old files before he was allowed to leave and he hated every minute of it. So yes, sometimes strong labor laws have a hint of slavery to them, but certainly not equivalence to real slavery.
Most UK contracts will also include a clause allowing the company to end the employment immediately as long as they still pay out what the employee would have earned during their notice period.
Having been through a few roles in the uk myself, the obligation on the company to give me adequate notice (and pay) has always benefited me.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the case of the video, the implication is that she was told she’s being fired for performance, which seems unreasonable as she appears to have just finished training. I think the days of HR giving references with any information are long gone, but I still wouldn’t want to chance having something in my “file” about being let go for performance if that wasn’t the real reason. That and it’s just common decency to not…
> In the case of the video, the implication is that she was told she’s being fired for performance, which seems unreasonable as she appears to have just finished training. She says she was hired 4.5 months ago and that her ramp-up quota period was 3 months long. That's not quite "just finished training". In sales, once your ramp up period is over you're expected to be held to the same performance standards as everyon…
