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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#211

Post by Scubabear68 »

dubcanada wrote: post #184
Scubabear68 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not holding them to a higher standard. Imagine if you will someone going to start large scale bombing NYC. Or London. Or Rome. The Hamas attack was unprecedented and horrific. I don’t know that it justifies declaring all out war on and entire city. I can say that without being anti-Semitic.

If you take what happened in Israel and change the location to London, do you think UK would just shrug it off? I am in no way saying what is currently happening is okay, but the response was the response, replace Israel with most other military dominant countries and you would get a similar response, especially if you were the stronger party. Depending on who we talk about, it may actually have been way worse. I bel…

It is interesting to me how your narrative went from somewhat reasonable to talking about “imparting hatred” and concluding it is anti-Semitic.

Which is kind of what the article is talking about.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#213

Post by pphysch »

ristlane wrote: post #159
hypeit wrote: post #3

If I'm ever fired for taking a pro-Palestinian stance, I will spend the rest of my life suing everyone involved. The capital community has crossed so many lines in their witch hunt for pro-Palestinan voices that it's not even funny. Our industry has reached a breaking point and I'm not sure what's going to happen since most of the VCs are extremely pro-Zionism and a huge portion of people under the age of 45 are pro-…

I’m very pro-Palestinian. That’s yet another reason why I want Hamas gone. There’s no chance for social justice while terrorists are running the show.

What do you think about the historical evidence of Netanyahu promoting Hamas for this very reason?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...

Anyway, we can make a similar argument about the Netanyahu regime: it is actively making Jewish, Israeli, and American people around the world less safe. It is almost treasonous that our elected officials are supporting this dangerous regime so uncritically.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#214

Post by ajb »

ristlane wrote: post #183
Scubabear68 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not holding them to a higher standard. Imagine if you will someone going to start large scale bombing NYC. Or London. Or Rome. The Hamas attack was unprecedented and horrific. I don’t know that it justifies declaring all out war on and entire city. I can say that without being anti-Semitic.

Hamas is hiding among civilians. I don’t want innocent people to be hurt, but their use of human shields is simply the standard playbook in this type of warfare. Hamas rationally wants Gazan civilians to be nearby and indistinguishable from combatants.

This is true but not the whole story. If Hamas were dug in under an Israeli school or hospital, would it similarly by okay to treat civilian deaths as 'just Hamas fault'? Obviously not. The problem here has that the situation is between a war and a policing situation. Gaza is not a state, but it is not a suburb of Israel either. So who is responsible for the safety of Palestinian civilians?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#215

Post by Boogie_Man »

neom wrote: post #138
Boogie_Man wrote: post #38

This article, more than making me feel one way or another about the particular issue at hand (Isreal Hamas) makes me speculate what other unknown, better coordinated, better funded, interest groups might be doing this sort of thing on a massive scale. I'm reminded of the "Come out - we have you surrounded" meme where the mentally insane man is hiding behind a desk with a shotgun screaming "Get out of my head" or "I h…

It's very interesting to me that a large new org (say BBC, DW, CBC whatever) will publish some YouTube video report about some political subject (Canada and India, Ukraine and Russia, Taiwan and China), and within 15 minutes the video has a comments section containing 200+ posts in a very obvious direction. Are 100s of Canadians really awake at 5am posting on a BBC video about Canadian support for Ukraine 15 minutes…

I shift from making myself not think about it to becoming a complete paranoid nut to telling myself it probably isn't so bad and doesn't matter a few times a year. There are levels to this sort of thinking, and it exists on a spectrum. I think everyone can agree on a conceptual level that manipulation occurs. A basic, mostly harmless example would be a music star "organically going viral" and "being discovered as a result" not being quite as organic as it seems. Where it changes from healthy skepticism to paranoia is a line I struggle to draw personally.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#216

Post by dubcanada »

I find this whole thing very weird, it's all about what side are you on as if it's a game to win. Are you pro-Palestine or pro-Israel, wrong answer and you're out of the club!

Are you not just allowed to have an opinion without you being classified as some sort of adjective? The same thing is happening with politics, you're either a republican or a democrat. Well, what if you're just a regular guy who pours concrete for a living. Why can't you just be Bob Smith?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#217

Post by incrudible »

thsksbd wrote: post #193
incrudible wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.

"what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests?" Good question. 75 years of history those other two conflicts lack

Wahabism dates back over 200 years, the Sunni/Shia divide over a thousand years.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#218

Post by toyg »

mrtksn wrote: post #153
seydor wrote: post #35

I think the behavior of the EU is more problematic TBH. Ursula VdL went heavily pro-israel the first day kind of giving carte blanche to israel for the following days This situation is not a good look for western response in general. The world is watching. Reminder that Srebrenica was 8000 deaths, but 17100 palestinians are justified losses.

She probably destroyed her career with this, since acted way beyond her limits. I still wonder, was she overcompensating due to her being German? It's very normal for EU to be pro-Israel, that's EU's official position and IMHO it's the correct one but EU's position is also pro-Two states solution and EU has significant humanitarian missions and political support for many of the Palestinian demands. Some EU countries…

VdL has 'destroyed her career' many times over, during her stint. She repeatedly tried to look decisive rather than wise; sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

The truth is that the Commission President continues to be a job in search of political weight and legitimacy, but you can't get that after you are nominated to the post by scheming national rulers - it has to come from the ballot box. She tries hard to compensate for what is a structural weakness that was supposed to be fixed by the spitzenkandidaten process... a process that she blew up herself.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#219

Post by TillE »

sabarn01 wrote: post #189
sertbdfgbnfgsd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. > If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views. That platforms prioritize one over the other is just one possible explanation. An alternative explanation is that more people already have those views. And it's dishonest to present one explanation and omit the other. N…

There is an ocean of injustice in the world and this one issue causes more anger than many that are equally abhorrent.

It's one of very very few issues where America and most of the west have stood firmly in support of violence and oppression for decades, even on issues like settlements where the US formally acknowledges the illegality and takes no action.

Of course people care primarily about the actions of their own democratically elected government, that's the whole point. There's no need to protest when people agree with their government.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#220

Post by ajb »

ls612 wrote: post #190
Scubabear68 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not holding them to a higher standard. Imagine if you will someone going to start large scale bombing NYC. Or London. Or Rome. The Hamas attack was unprecedented and horrific. I don’t know that it justifies declaring all out war on and entire city. I can say that without being anti-Semitic.

Imagine if a terrorist group murdered 2750 people in New York and in response the US said they would topple the government which supported them and occupy their country indefinitely.

They did that. In fact, the US waited quite a long time to see if the Taliban would give up bin Laden, before invading.
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