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Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

timeuse.barcelona

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Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#211

Post by globular-toast »

dudul wrote: post #205
mklepaczewski wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually solves a lot, and I contact people on all continents multiple times per day. Currently when you want to schedule a meeting with a person in another timezone you need to do a bit of very confusing math (it's simple addition and subtraction, but one-off errors are rampant) and translate their time to yours. Most of the time both parties try to do it and it gets confusing. Lots of "your time or my time" ques…

You're right. Let's completely change how humanity has done it for centuries so you and your friends don't spend 32sec looking up "current time in X" 2 or 3 times a day. You would still need to do the effort of understanding what 10pm means for the other party. 10pm may be your lunchtime while it's the middle of the night for them.

Don't think people have been having calls across continents for centuries. Just 100 years ago the vast majority of the population would never have encountered another time zone.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#212

Post by GoblinSlayer »

steveBK123 wrote: post #128

This almost feels like a false flag of proposing the most disruptive plan possible such that it couldn't possibly be approved, haha. Splitting & re-groupings are almost arbitrary and have no consideration for politics, business and culture. Ireland & N. Ireland in different TZ? France & Corsica in different TZ? Pushing Ireland & Portugal into their own TZ and calling it Azores time? Bringing UK into alignment with Sp…

Duh, just put all Europe in UTC.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#213

Post by GoblinSlayer »

this_user wrote: post #99
jetzzz wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. > Reasons > ... Why not just have time as close to solar as possible and move working hours as needed? I have always found arguments for permanent summer time very confusing. Just move working hours as needed, why do you need to deviate the entire clock from the solar time for that?

Because we no longer live in a pre-industrial society where people start work with the sunrise and go to bed at sunset, because the only available artificial light is candles. For the vast majority of people, noon is not the middle of the day.

Maybe fix that? Make solar noon the middle of the day. Then clock can show any number.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#214

Post by GoblinSlayer »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #89
jetzzz wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. > Reasons > ... Why not just have time as close to solar as possible and move working hours as needed? I have always found arguments for permanent summer time very confusing. Just move working hours as needed, why do you need to deviate the entire clock from the solar time for that?

Because it's easier to adjust the clock than to get employers to adjust schedules and to adjust public transit etc. accordingly.

Public transit suffers from coinciding schedules: when all people rush at the same hour same minute, they create rush hour.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#215

Post by closewith »

switch007 wrote: post #107
closewith wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware of the accession path Ireland took and why it was linked to UK accession? Ireland has the highest level of pro-EU sentiment in the bloc and it is still more likely that we will leave than accept a timezone partition with the North. It's not in question. Failure to understand this is a complete failure to understand the country.

I am. What’s your point ? I know Ireland likes the riches that come with EU membership. They don’t want to return to being a poor country. It would be a time zone difference, not a partition. Let’s not used such loaded language. Edit: is the USA “partitioned” or any less united because of multiple timezones?

> I am. What’s your point ?

Then you know that Northern Ireland was a more important issue than EU membership and that remains true. Hence all the hoops jumped through for the Northern Irish Agreement after Brexit.

> I know Ireland likes the riches that come with EU membership. They don’t want to return to being a poor country.

What you're suggesting is risking descent into civil war.

> It would be a time zone difference, not a partition. Let’s not used such loaded language.

If you don't know why I'm using the term partition and why it would be the term immediately applied to this idea, you don't know enough to how know how little you understand this issue.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#216

Post by GoblinSlayer »

ghaff wrote: post #94
jetzzz wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. > Reasons > ... Why not just have time as close to solar as possible and move working hours as needed? I have always found arguments for permanent summer time very confusing. Just move working hours as needed, why do you need to deviate the entire clock from the solar time for that?

It's basically a coordination problem. Workplaces, schools, stores...

How do you expect stores to coordinate? If they worked during work hours, what's the point? People work during work hours, they don't go to stores. To solve this stores work around the clock or until 21 hour.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#218

Post by globular-toast »

dudul wrote: post #144
mklepaczewski wrote: post #132

Serious question, why not adopt one timezone globally? For some of us sunrise would happen at 10pm, for others on 4pm. So what? Wouldn't we just get used to it? Is there any rationale for anchoring start of the day between 4am-8am?

You would still need to remember to not call your buddy in LA at your "8am" when in NYC. Now you need to take into account what a 9-to-5 translates to for all parts of the world. Solves nothing.

You still have to know a bit about your buddy, though. You can probably assume he'll be awake at his midday, but what about 7:00? Is he an early riser? Or does he have other commitments at that time? In reality you'll just learn you can call around 16:00 your time. At that point it's just a number and doesn't matter what it is.

If things really were more complicated and you always needed to ask the question of "when can I call today", would it really be that difficult to incorporate schedules into contact records so your phone can tell you "available after 23 today".

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#219

Post by jimscard »

highmastdon wrote: post #32

We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…

Not actually supported by the science, which shows that the misalignment with our circadian rhythms is the most important consideration. Permanent standard time is the optimal scenario, and the one our bodies and minds are optimized ofor.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#220

Post by tinus_hn »

highmastdon wrote: post #32

We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…

Luckily most people have finally tired of this endless whinery and realized that summertime really isn’t a big deal and we have bigger fish to fry.
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