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Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

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Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#211
post #52

Charlie Munger had great advice in general. And I've learned a lot of good from him. But I will never get over the hypocrisy of owning a quarter of Coca Cola and constantly criticizing Americans for being overweight (he used words like "sloth").

Enjoying the occasional Coca Cola but not overindulging is perfectly consistent correct behaviour within those constraints

Define "occasional."

I drink about one soft drink per year, and it's a Coke. (Which reminds me, I don't think I've had my drink for 2023!)

If all world citizens limited themselves to my rate of indulgence, Berkshire Hathaway's KO stake would be worth quite a bit less.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What CBT protocol did you do that had you systematically putting agency and responsibility outside of yourself?

You make a good point. CBT is about assigning blame to the self. Despite being labeled “cognitive distortions” things like black and white thinking and personalization and blame are things that CBT teaches you to do more often

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Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#213
From the Wikipedia page: "His father, Alfred Case Munger, was a lawyer.[2] His grandfather was Thomas Charles Munger, a U.S. district court judge and state representative.[3]"

This is not the billionaire white guy who can empathize with most people's situation.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#214

He passed away earlier today, which is I guess why this is here. He's got a point, too. To be a victim is to be helpless, and if you can choose to not see yourself that way, you can at least have some power back.

> To be a victim is to be helpless

This seems overly strong? To me "victimhood" just implies that you are the recipient of the negative consequences of someone else's actions, it has nothing to do with your response to those actions. You can be a helpless victim and you can be a resistant victim. You can recognize that something is not your fault, and still act to fix it. But simply eating the blame for everything that happens to you will just make you miserable. Healthy self-regard comes from understanding both what is and is not your fault, and what is and is not within your control.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. I’m NOT a victim. >Now, I want to be clear that you can, in fact, be a victim and things can happen in your life that isn’t your fault Going to be honest here, I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying that people should go through life never feeling like a victim, even if they are one? I don't see how that would be helpful. >5. Whatever happens in life, I give myself a cap of 48 hours to get over…

I think they're saying that you can use belief as a tool in your thinking, even if you know intellectually it's not true now and certainly won't be true always. The belief that you are not a victim is (often) a very useful belief because it prompts change in the only place you're reliably able to produce it: your own decisions. This is true irrespective of whether you're actually a victim today or tomorrow. Obviously…

> > This is the kind of mindset that leads to people committing suicide.

> Citation please? That's an extremely bold claim to be throwing out as established fact.

I know I’ll probably offend some folks by saying this: This is why everyone seems to expect to be coddled nowadays. Concepts like suicide are used so liberally and flippantly, and worse, they’re even weaponized at times. We’ve gone from vets committing suicide due to PTSD after being in literal war to folks considering suicide as an option the moment they feel the slightest bit of discomfort from life. I think this is really bad for society.

If anything, I think learning how to take full control over your emotions—i.e., the point of my “48 hours” system—can likely actually prevent suicide (this is obviously just my hunch, not based on any studies), because it’s usually (not always) a result of someone losing hope in their ability to control their situation/outcomes and letting their emotions take over. It’s easy to see my system as robotic, but the reality is, the end result is putting the power back in my hands and allowing myself to push through. It’s worked extremely well for me.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#216

Personally, thinking "it's always your fault" is as not nearly as important as thinking "I am the only one who can do anything (or cares) to make this better." Misfortune isn't always our fault. How we respond to it is.

The "your fault" part of the quote isn't something I take literally, just a pithy way of saying what you said in your post - that I'm the only one who's going to take responsibility for making it better. I also often remember a quote from Unsong - "somebody has to, and no one else will". I will say, though, that often things I don't like in my life _are_ my fault, and being willing to honestly assess those things is…

It can also go the other way and something I often have to consciously work against:

You can't always try to make everything better that you become aware of. You can't fix everything. Not everything is your problem to solve. In fact, some (important) people may not like it if you try to solve said problem.

I very much have to make myself stay out of solving everything and just let others take care of it. Especially since I very much don't like other people I see that encounter the slightest problem and they just throw up their hands screaming "I don't know what to do so I'll just stand here and do nothing while someone else solves it". So it's quite the balancing act. Those people need to do more "my fault, I'll solve it" and I need to do more "not my business, let them solve it but secretly keep an eye on it to ensure that it does get done in the end coz it's actually important".

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#217
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 these looked great, I would have much rather lived in this than the triple with zero privacy I lived in during school.

It could be worse, sure. But those rooms (at least some of them) don't have any windows. Why would you build something like that?

My dorm room did not have windows. Honestly it would only be a problem if I never left it. But I was out and about every day to classes and friends and other typical university things

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#218

I love it. Without even knowing about this particular quote, this has been my standard for myself for some years now. The “it’s always your fault” concept is scary to some folks—and I understand why—but it’s changed my life since I adopted it years ago. Generally speaking, my framework is: 1. I’m NOT a victim. 2. I accept that everything that happens in my life is my fault. 3. I control the controllables; I can’t fix…

> Whatever happens in life, I give myself a cap of 48 hours to get over it—this includes being sad, grieving, being unproductive, etc.

This is, to me, insane. Grief, sadness, anger, etc are not truly within our conscious control. I can't say that I have a study in hand which shows this or anything, but in my own personal experience with them it definitely doesn't seem like a "choice" to feel something. Feeling and actions have mutual influence, but neither fully determines the other. Choosing to be "over it", IMO, is simply denial masquerading as self-control.

To be clear: recognizing the persistence of, say, grief is not at all the same as letting yourself be consumed by it. I think it's appropriate and healthy to set boundaries on the amount of time that you will give energy and attention to an emotion like grief, and making the decision to "move on" is absolutely possible. But to me this must take the form of "I am still feeling X, but choosing not to let my actions be dominated by it", or at the very least the simple "I am still feeling X and that's okay". In my experience people who you instead say "I am no longer allowing myself to feel X" eventually [ex|im]plode. A quote I heard a long time ago that really resonated with me is (something like) "you are not a machine, you are a garden"; my mind doesn't take orders and trying to force it to adopt one state or another will either result in frustration (bad) or deluding myself about my internal emotional state (worse). All I can productively do is provide my mind with the circumstances it needs to develop in a healthy way, and then be patient. In the meantime I can put my best effort into taking healthy and self-caring actions (doesn't have to be sleeping all day, could be taking a class or learning a new skill), without punishing myself for failing these.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#219

I love it. Without even knowing about this particular quote, this has been my standard for myself for some years now. The “it’s always your fault” concept is scary to some folks—and I understand why—but it’s changed my life since I adopted it years ago. Generally speaking, my framework is: 1. I’m NOT a victim. 2. I accept that everything that happens in my life is my fault. 3. I control the controllables; I can’t fix…

>1. I’m NOT a victim. >Now, I want to be clear that you can, in fact, be a victim and things can happen in your life that isn’t your fault Going to be honest here, I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying that people should go through life never feeling like a victim, even if they are one? I don't see how that would be helpful. >5. Whatever happens in life, I give myself a cap of 48 hours to get over…

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Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#220
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more charitable reading is that either you do have agency over how you got to where you are and how you can get out of it, in which case it is better to focus on believing what you do matters, or you don't, in which case it doesn't matter either way. That is why it's better to have a mindset of "I can change my situaion for the better" instead of "Life sucks I'm a victim".

If one person on a team consistently does poor quality work, and the others do not, I do not see the utility in blaming the high performing team members for not doing more to prevent the poor performer from making a mess, or in convincing them that the fault is theirs and that they should look inward to better understand what they did wrong. Each person is carrying their own part of the total load. That person has a…

> "I do not see the utility in blaming the high performing team members for not doing more to prevent the poor performer from making a mess"

The non-technical manager isn't able to do more to prevent it. Nor is the busy technical manager. The poor performer either isn't able or willing. There's no Superman coming to rescue you. You are the person on the planet who cares the most about the poor performer's effect on your life, and you know the quote about "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". The utility of "blame" is questionable, but the choice is only do you consider yourself a victim of the poor performer with nothing you can do and have the same situation happen again and again, or do you recognise that you are in a position to act and prevent it? (If you want, you can then blame your choice not to act, when the situation predictably recurs, I guess).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4AUY-v1nsE - "We are going to have to act, if we want to live in a different world"

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