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The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

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Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#211

Post by Apocryphon »

vwcx wrote: post #192
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have brainwashed our western minds to make women leave their kids in daycare sometimes weeks after being born. Then we are brainwashed to let kids sleep in a separate room so that mommy can get a good night's rest and be productive at work. We need a minimum of 3 years of maternity leave in our country to being with. It is insane as one of the best countries in the world we don't let people have kids naturally.

Truly a modern heresy. I'd add the culture of parenting "technique" micro-analysis as another toxic drain on the potential of childrearing. Way too much thought given to dubious "science" of parenting decisions that cause parents too focus too heavily on things that ultimately don't matter. Related modern heresies: https://www.secretorum.life/p/20-modern-heresies?s=w

The line between Galileo and Bozo the Clown is as fine as ever.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#212

Post by em-bee »

watwut wrote: post #123
Aurornis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience caring for your small children is really demanding work. On the one hand you need to be focused on the situation in order to protect the children I expected this going into having children, but I was surprised at how much I actually enjoyed it. Yes, it’s more active work than sitting in front of a computer, but for me personally I’ve found it much less demanding than my jobs. > and on the other han…

> go on a lot of adventures around the neighborhood and beyond where everything is new and exciting to them. I mean, first time and second time. But when they get excited 55th time over exactly same hedgehog, it just was not so exciting to me anymore.

well, if you can't get excited over seeing the same hedgehog again and again (which would be a comparable experience to having a pet) then you just have to pick something else. the challenge is to find things that you and the kids enjoy. and i sympathize. this can be hard.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#213

Post by fingerlocks »

vladgur wrote: post #209
15457345234 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the best thing you can do for the world Is to not have any children so the population gets back down to sustainable levels

You need to watch Idiocracy https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ When some people stop procreating and educating the next generation, the world population does not simply go down. Instead it gets replaced by those who do continue multiplying.

That was a fictional comedy, not a documentary. That’s not how evolution works

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#214

Post by scotty79 »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #199
15457345234 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the best thing you can do for the world Is to not have any children so the population gets back down to sustainable levels

massive population collapse will be disastrous for modern societies. Who will do the work required to care for the elderly population?

Only 5% of people work in agriculture and 15% in industry. So we could reduce the workforce by 80% if only people would groom their own dogs themselves and just die when their time comes.

And if not healthcare is another 15%. But you probably can shave off a little from all those numbers if you exclude the time devoted to desperately trying to sell things to each other in the economy of abundance.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#215

Post by GuB-42 »

kaskakokos wrote: post #119
stareatgoats wrote: post #20

We can only move forward, not backward. The hunter-gatherer existence is often endowed with some notion of pristine, peaceful existence in harmony with nature, which is likely far from the actual truth. That said, I for one find many aspects (but not all!) of the present situation unsatisfactory, where the needs of macroeconomy and national priorities supersedes many of our most basic needs as humans. This article co…

I look at it from this perspective, we have been hunting-gathering for 95% of our time on earth, it may be the case that from our bubble we think we are "more advanced", but if we think about the test of time, we have not yet passed, and call me crazy, but it seems that this "advancement" of ours does not hold up for long at this level. Today we know that many "non-advanced" cultures, aware of the limits of growth, l…

We may not have stood the test of time (yet?), but we certainly stood the test of population. About as many people are living today as hunter-gatherers ever lived, that is about 10% of the total number of people who have ever lived.

Non-advanced cultures limited the consomption of resources because they couldn't do otherwise, their environment couldn't provide enough. But with agriculture, we made our environment orders of magnitude more productive, and growth is a consequence of that. Also, the "imaginative ways" advanced or not cultures have limited the consumption of resources mostly boil downs to different ways for people to kill each other. From murder to global wars. Killing people is not as popular as it once was in modern society, so instead, our limiting strategy is more about making less kids.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#216

Post by aidenn0 »

getpost wrote: post #54

> the researchers say that children may be "evolutionarily primed" to expect exceptionally high levels of physical contact and care, What strikes me here is the phrase, "exceptionally high levels." I imagine children need a "normal" level of care; it's only "exceptionally high" in comparison to the deprived state of family systems in these degenerate times. I often reflect on the understanding in Attachment Theory, w…

They make a lot of entreaties. And if they are sick, there may be nothing the caregiver can do about it. If 20% of the entreaties are things like an upset stomach, then that 30-50% becomes 38-62%. If the baby has colic, good luck!

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#217

Post by rpmisms »

fingerlocks wrote: post #213
vladgur wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to watch Idiocracy https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ When some people stop procreating and educating the next generation, the world population does not simply go down. Instead it gets replaced by those who do continue multiplying.

That was a fictional comedy, not a documentary. That’s not how evolution works

Please explain how, because if stupid people have more kids, there will be more stupid people.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#218

Post by Proziam »

amrocha wrote: post #210
bnlxbnlx wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, parenthood is intense, both both ways. It intensifies the highs and the lows. There's more strain and there's more joy. And there's a lot less strain when moving out of nuclear family structures. It all becomes easier for the children and the parents.

I disagree that there's more joy to parenthood. I think that's a lie parents tell themselves to justify their decision. I'm happy for you if you're happy to have children. That doesn't mean people without children aren't as happy as you.

This stance strikes me as odd.

Every parent was once a non-parent, and therefore can compare their own experience before and after. I'm sure parents are a little (intentionally) delusional at times, nobody wants to seem like a 'bad' or 'uncaring' parent. But to assume that the extreme majority of parents are lying about enjoying an experience that they've been evolutionarily primed for seems like flat-earth level reality-denial.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#219

Post by [deleted] »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #153
rexpop wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We decry "demands" when we should acknowledge "dependencies;" kids won't properly compile without their needs met.

We have brainwashed our western minds to make women leave their kids in daycare sometimes weeks after being born. Then we are brainwashed to let kids sleep in a separate room so that mommy can get a good night's rest and be productive at work. We need a minimum of 3 years of maternity leave in our country to being with. It is insane as one of the best countries in the world we don't let people have kids naturally.

[deleted]

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#220

Post by cornstalks »

amrocha wrote: post #210
bnlxbnlx wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, parenthood is intense, both both ways. It intensifies the highs and the lows. There's more strain and there's more joy. And there's a lot less strain when moving out of nuclear family structures. It all becomes easier for the children and the parents.

I disagree that there's more joy to parenthood. I think that's a lie parents tell themselves to justify their decision. I'm happy for you if you're happy to have children. That doesn't mean people without children aren't as happy as you.

Just as you think it’s annoying to have someone project the statement onto you (though I don’t think that’s what GP was doing), I think it’s annoying you’re telling me it’s a lie that I’m telling myself. I can say with confidence I’m happier with kids than without. I’ve had it both ways, and I can speak to my own experience with honesty far better than you can guess about strangers you don’t know.

Don’t take GP’s statement as a projection onto you. Take it as one’s projection onto their own self. That said, this (GP’s statement) has been the general consensus of other parents I’ve talked to. So I wouldn’t discard it so flippantly.

That doesn’t mean literally everyone would be happier with children, of course.

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