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macOS Containers v0.0.1

macoscontainers.org

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Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#211
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example people do not use homebrew to install python3 on a fresh install of mac os and get a python that spews a bunch of messages to stderr about the version of libc6.so and cannot speak TLS.

It only upgrades PostgreSQL 3 major versions up alongside without asking.

Think this issue was fixed a few years ago

Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#212
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I take it you don't use Apple Pay or anything...? Edit: to be clear for the people who may not know, Apple Pay does not work with SIP disabled. ;P

Is Apple Pay that popular?

I use it whenever I can, whether on laptop or mobile.

Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#213

How does this work? Fundamentally, containers are about namespace/isolation of a bunch of OS interfaces, so file system functions, network functions, memory management, process functions, etc, can all pretend like they're the only game in town, but crucially without having to virtualize out the kernel. Does XNU have such namespacing functionality across all its interfaces? Furthermore, the existing container ecosyste…

This introduces a long-standing problem that is really the main issue I have with Docker/Podman/containers on anything other than Linux - you have a dedicated VM that needs memory to be set aside for it exclusively. This is fine if you have a 32/64GB machine, but less so on an 8GB non-upgradeable laptop. I get it - memory is relatively cheap these days - and manufacturers that are building memory-limited devices are…

Recent versions of Docker Desktop have a "Resource saver"[0] mode. It will de-allocate memory and CPU when containers aren't being used. If there's a leaf icon next to your Docker icon then it's in resource saver mode.

I imagine over time it will get smarter too. Right now it waits for no containers to be running for 30 seconds and enables resource saving mode but who knows what could happen in the future. Maybe it can internally profile and estimate load based on evaluating runtime stats of your contains and dynamically change the VM's resources on the fly and then expose a +% over provision threshold option or a way to turn off dynamic resource saver mode.

[0]: https://www.docker.com/blog/docker-desktop-4-22

Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's only a 1% chance these days on Linux that your sound won't work or your computer won't sleep when you close the lid or your wifi won't work, or your ethernet, or your cooling, or a peripheral, or CPU/memory spikes. And a 90% chance it'll be at least one such thing.

All of those things work fine on every computer in my household that runs Linux. This spans thinkpad, dell and ASUS laptops, Dell desktops, home-built gamer type desktops, a few raspberry pi's, and a SFF PC we use to run Kodi on the main TV. I do find it amusing in a thread about how you have to turn off a core security feature to be able to use containers properly on a Mac that the discussion immediately turns to ho…

Tell us what distro you recommend?

Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#215
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Original author here. Thanks for spotting the typo, fixed. WRT security implications of disabling SIP - I don't think OS becomes any less vulnerable than usual Linux/Windows installation.

Docker Desktop doesn’t require me to disable SIP. Why would I use this if it requires that?

This should have faster file access than Docker Desktop. For large projects, disabling SIP may be worth the increase in performance.

Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#216
post #202

It’s remarkable that Apple doesn’t have a first party solution to this yet. They used be, or aspire to be, at the forefront of OS research.“The most advanced Unix”. They’re not even trying, now.

A/UX wasn't that much advanced, and most technology interesting stuff in NeXTSTEP, and OS X, is completely unrelated to UNIX.

Off the top of my head:

launchd inspired systemd.

Spotlight (real time indexing and notification) is something I miss in Linux today.

64bit Unix layer on consumer hardware (G5).

All of that stuff was not a first ever implementation, of course, but it was well executed and led the way.

All of that was more than a decade ago.

Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#217
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A/UX wasn't that much advanced, and most technology interesting stuff in NeXTSTEP, and OS X, is completely unrelated to UNIX.

Off the top of my head: launchd inspired systemd. Spotlight (real time indexing and notification) is something I miss in Linux today. 64bit Unix layer on consumer hardware (G5). All of that stuff was not a first ever implementation, of course, but it was well executed and led the way. All of that was more than a decade ago.

You may argue that Quartz inspired Wayland, but I wouldn’t be so sure, maybe that was just obvious given the hardware of today.

Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that of course, I'm much more curious why you think this is a concern for people, and/or why you consider this an effective protection against said unknown actors.

I want that feature on cause I dont want stuff I dont know about looking and changing stuff I dont know about, whether it's running with escalated privileges or not

I doubt you (or any human) is capable of enumerating what you don't want looked at. Frankly, I doubt most of this unknown area is covered by SIP at all, and it would be extremely odd if it did. Perhaps you might consider arguing for actual permissions rather than arbitrarily walling off the OS in a way that tangentially benefits the monopoly Apple holds over their own computers.

Wouldn't it be far easier to enumerate what you want an app to access?

Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#219
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A/UX wasn't that much advanced, and most technology interesting stuff in NeXTSTEP, and OS X, is completely unrelated to UNIX.

Off the top of my head: launchd inspired systemd. Spotlight (real time indexing and notification) is something I miss in Linux today. 64bit Unix layer on consumer hardware (G5). All of that stuff was not a first ever implementation, of course, but it was well executed and led the way. All of that was more than a decade ago.

All of that appeared first in HP-UX, Solaris and Aix.

Xenix and Coherent were the first UNIX on consumer hardware.

Re: macOS Containers v0.0.1

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head: launchd inspired systemd. Spotlight (real time indexing and notification) is something I miss in Linux today. 64bit Unix layer on consumer hardware (G5). All of that stuff was not a first ever implementation, of course, but it was well executed and led the way. All of that was more than a decade ago.

You may argue that Quartz inspired Wayland, but I wouldn’t be so sure, maybe that was just obvious given the hardware of today.

Non UNIX display technology inspired Wayland.

Amiga, Atari, BeOS, OS/2, Windows, classical Mac OS,...

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