The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#211

Post by zug_zug » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:40 PM UTC

zemvpferreira wrote: post #116

somewhereoutth wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take SF as an example. If a significant number of new units were built (somehow without detracting from the character of the city), would it really lower prices much? Likely not - instead prices would dip just enough to make it viable for large numbers of high income people from outside SF to come to the city (which by massing effect may make SF even more desirable, so actually higher prices!) Wealth taxes are…

This is a bizarre idea contrary to how many housing affordability crisis were actually solved in the past. Would SF's housing prices go down if you were to build 10,000 new units? You're right, probably not that much. Would SF's housing prices go down if you were to build 1M new units? No doubt. Shenzhen grew from 100,000 people in the 1980s to 13M now with no housing affordability crisis...by building. The whole pea…

Are you sure it's profitable to build 1million units in Soma (or whatever portion isn't protected historic houses limited to 3 stories) ?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#212

Post by packetlost » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:40 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

We, IMO, need a progressive tax system for every home controlled by an entity that isn't their primary residence. You don't want to hurt small individuals trying to build up wealth, but we need to stop allowing large corporations to turn basic necessities into investment vehicles.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#213

Post by alright2565 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

> the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental

Homeownership rates haven't changed by more than a couple percentage points since the 1960s: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RHORUSQ156N

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#214

Post by c_crank » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

fifticon wrote: post #190

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Metro areas do not have enough affordable housing. It's well established that local governments cannot build enough new affordable housing, partly because any contractor that bids goes way over the value of a private housing venture. The idea that there's enough housing but "in the wrong place" is like saying there's plenty of jobs, they're just in third world countries and Scandinavia. The idea that the solutio…

I wonder why the Robin Hood issue is never a problem when money is moved in the opposite direction :-)

Did anyone force all those students to take student loans?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#215

Post by somewhereoutth » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #123

somewhereoutth wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no natural rights to anything, and it's the law of the jungle. Except the crowning achievement of our civilisation is the realisation that there are natural rights (see UN Declaration of Human Rights, US Constitution etc). Indeed, the Rule of Law is perhaps a greater achievement than democracy, and from a jungle perspective not self evident. The property rights you allude to are also part of this Rule of La…

That's why i call it a veneer. Just have a look at the blackout of New York https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_blackout_of_1977... , and how much crime it led to, just because the veneer is torn off. People are only civil because they fear the threat of punishment. As soon as this threat is removed, or is evident that it's unenforceable, you tell me what "natural rights" exist?

Generally speaking, people become uncivil only when under extreme stress (e.g. of poverty). Most people are inherently civil in their nature, hence we have a civilisation that reflects this fact.

Contrast Portugal, with almost no crime, vs the US, with well documented crime problems. Certainly punishments are no harsher in Portugal than the US, if anything the reverse. However in Portugal people aren't as financially stressed as in the US, not least as everyone has access to healthcare, justice, democracy etc regardless of ability to pay.

See also the concept of 'policing by consent' in the UK.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#216

Post by bradley13 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

"There are a lot of services here if you're sober so I suspect they swooped in and found her."

That's what is important. If someone has just had a run of lousy luck,there must be services to help them get back on their feet.

The mentally ill, the junkies? You need services that give them a way out, but you cannot force them to use those services. If they won't accept help, then all that's left is "tough love": Force them out to out-of-the-way places, so they don't mess up everyone else's lives, and let them do whatever they need to do.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#217

Post by invalidOrTaken » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

>Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird conclusion to draw.

While I bear zero animus towards immigrants, this seems obtuse. Why are those companies willing to pay so much? Because they predict they can charge enough rent to make it profitable anyway. Why would they think that? Because immigrants can compete down at the level of rents.

This seems like the same mistake people make about "luxury housing," but on the other end of the market. Building housing at the top of the market does indeed make things cheaper at the bottom of the market, and bringing in people at the bottom of the market does indeed make things more expensive at the top.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#218

Post by mlinhares » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:43 PM UTC

escapedmoose wrote: post #192

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

Among my friends seeking to buy houses, the greater problem is the ability of large companies to buy up whatever is on the market, which they then immediately turn into a rental. It’s nearly impossible to compete with a company who will pay $50k over asking price, in cash, for the house you’re trying to get. Comparatively, immigrants don’t have the purchasing power to compete, so saying they’re the problem is a weird…

Not only building new homes is unnecessarily complicated and expensive, single family homes are an incredible waste of space and money, had the US and it's big cities invested in apartment buildings with better amenities or forced developers to build shared neighborhood amenities Americans in general wouldn't be so incredibly against it.

It's insane to me that my hometown of 1M people in Brazil has more tall apartment buildings than Philadelphia, with incredibly better amenities.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#219

Post by Grimburger » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:43 PM UTC

alephnerd wrote: post #207

zb1plus wrote: post #134

In places like the bay area with a housing crisis and limited space to expand, the state should seize office buildings (remote work is the future and would help alleviate the shortage while new housing is developed) by eminent domain and set up a scheme like Singapore's HDB system [1] to develop affordable housing. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_and_Development_Board

I agree with the sentiment but it's legally and politically untenable in the US (edit: to use eminent domain) Singapore was able to build out the HDB because it was a One Party State that didn't take kindly to activists. For example, when the HDB program was being built out, there was massive resistance by the people living in the villages used to build those HDBs. Those villagers often leaned socialist (Barisal Sosi…

This seems a somewhat dramatised account? The Malayan emergency response had the solid backing of the west and was essentially just a continuation of the cold war across the region at the time, it's definitely a lot deeper than just zoning laws and is rooted in a decades long civil war with communist insurgents.

There's absolutely no reason we in the Anglosphere couldn't emulate the HDB system and bringing up cold war incidents from 60 years ago isn't really relevant at all to how it works on the ground today.

Tangentially: Singaporean HDB owners have been harping on about oversupply for years now and the government is foolishly listening to those with a clear vested bias for increasing their own asset prices: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/govt-careful-calibrati...

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#220

Post by volkl48 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:44 PM UTC

voidwtf wrote: post #126

gcanyon wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same box of cereal increased from ~$3.75 to ~$6.59 and gone from 19oz to 17oz. Your claim is that cereal has experienced 96% inflation? Over what time frame?

Since the beginning of 2020, yes. Even the delayed statistics appear to support my anecdotal evidence. However, thanks to Publix sending receipts to my email account I can provide a more concrete example. Kellogg’s Fruit Loops “Family Size” 01/16/2020 21oz $4.79 ~$0.23/oz Today 18.4oz $8.59 ~$0.47/oz So yea, over a 100% increase…

I will point out that this example of inflation seems to be mostly just price gouging by the big brands.

I've seen a similar price increase in the branded cereals, so I am not disagreeing with you in that sense.

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However, the store brand cereals, which are cheaper, haven't really gone up at all. At this point the branded product is more than double the unit cost of the store/no-name brand version in my local stores.

This suggests to me that it's not an actual increase in the cost of producing the product. If it was driven by commodity/input/manufacturing cost prices we should be seeing price pressures coming through in the cheapest cereals.