Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

vanityfair.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 403 posts

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#211

Post by [deleted] »

gordian-not wrote: post #175
rightbyte wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These ones? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin_assassination_co... The bullet points seem to be mostly confusion at the scene and shitty police work afterwards. What is the conspiracy. That he was not killed at that spot, but later by the secret service? Like "that guy fired blanks at him, lets kill the PM and frame him"?

I never really understood the logic because it is deeply oxymoronic. People that generally wanted him dead (ultra right) think that he was killed by the secret service (presumably left) and Yigal Amir (ultra right) was framed. But it is something about putting blank bullets in order to gather support with a fake assassination and then he was really killed by the Shabak on order of Shimon Peres (but can’t say that’s v…

[deleted]

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#212

Post by kevinmchugh »

akira2501 wrote: post #168
xyzelement wrote: post #118

Not directly related to this article, but I found the lone gunman theory much easier to accept after visiting the museum in the former book depository in Dallas. You can look down onto the plaza from the exact spot Oswald shot from, and you can easily imagine how the bullet fired from there would go through JFK and into the governor sitting in front of him. Not that this proves anything, it was just a "oh, I can tang…

The problem is, the Secret Service could see that too, and Dallas wasn't exactly a "friendly" city. The decision to take such a route in a vehicle without cover or without securing the building remains unexplained. So, yea, the depository is a perfect location to shoot onto that route. This in and of itself is a massive problem.

The featured article is about a 23 year old secret service agent hired directly from college and quickly assigned to protect the first lady - what if the secret service before 1963 was just not that competent? How much does that explain for us?

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#213

Post by ianburrell »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #174
thinkharderdev wrote: post #146

I didn't read the article but a few months ago I randomly came across https://www.posner.com/case-closed and gave it a read. I haven't really read much else about the Kennedy assassination and the various conspiracy theories (certainly no other 400p books on the subject) but came away from the reading pretty impressed with the thoroughness of the argument. Spoiler alert, the argument is that the official story that O…

How does this book account for the magic bullet, an exit wound to the back of the head, gun smoke seem from another location, eyewitness reports of Oswald that make it impossible for him to make the shots in those timeframes, or the eyewitness reports of a "police officer" near the grassy knoll that was never accounted for or found? The magic bullet and exit wound - as seen on film kept from Americans for years - wer…

The magic bullet took a straight trajectory through Kennedy and Connolly. Modern theory is that they weren't seated in a straight line and Connolly was turned.

Oswald could definitely have made the shots. He was a trained Marine marksman. There have been multiple tests showing that it is possible to make the shots.

Kennedy had a small entry in back of the head. The explosion on top and side of head was not the entry wound. There isn't an exit wound because it was probably in damaged area so could say explosion was the exit wound. Remember that he was hit with rifle bullet that causes lots more damage than handgun.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#214

Post by rightbyte »

gordian-not wrote: post #175
rightbyte wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These ones? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin_assassination_co... The bullet points seem to be mostly confusion at the scene and shitty police work afterwards. What is the conspiracy. That he was not killed at that spot, but later by the secret service? Like "that guy fired blanks at him, lets kill the PM and frame him"?

I never really understood the logic because it is deeply oxymoronic. People that generally wanted him dead (ultra right) think that he was killed by the secret service (presumably left) and Yigal Amir (ultra right) was framed. But it is something about putting blank bullets in order to gather support with a fake assassination and then he was really killed by the Shabak on order of Shimon Peres (but can’t say that’s v…

I mean, that would be like a secret service sniper shooting JFK when Oswald missed, or something. Surely is is reasonable to believe that the risk of a secrete service assassination increases during a assassination attempt. But, there is not really anything that would indicate that.

During the 1WW the death rate of officers was about twice that of privates for a sample.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570677X2...

I believe that there is a risk of opportunity murder when bullets are flying. Using the confusion as cover. But, as I said, only speculative.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#215

Post by pfannkuchen »

tasogare wrote: post #209
jl6 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am reminded of an incident relayed to me by an office worker in the early 2000s. A colleague had left the building at lunchtime and had been witness to some kind of shooting incident where robbers or gang members on motorcycles had opened fire on someone or something else - I don’t think it was ever discovered what the target or cause was. This was in South America, so not a wholly unusual scenario. But the debrief…

My theory is that in a really stressful situation the mind hyperfocuses and "processes more frames per second" to react quicker. Just like with movies this mean that replayed at normal speed the movie serms very slow, hence the long timespan memory.

I believe this is also responsible for so called dad reflexes.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#216

Post by wheelerof4te »

drexlspivey wrote: post #208
wheelerof4te wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think the suspicious stuff about the JFK assassination is not the shot itself, but..." ...who ordered the murder. Shooter is the least important factor considering how many enemies JFK had in the establishment. It is too easy to blackmail someone in performing the murder. Especially if you have friends in the CIA.

The hit was ordered by Sam Giancana, the Chicago mafia boss. Jack Ruby was his lackey. From wikipedia: Ruby was known to have been acquainted with both the police and the Mafia. The HSCA said that Ruby had known Chicago mobster Sam Giancana (1908–1975) and Joseph Campisi (1918–1990) since 1947, and had been seen with them on many occasions.

It's so good that you mentioned him, because this is from the first article of the top of Google's search:

"In July 1974, however, he was seized by police in Mexico City and shipped back to Chicago. One year later he was bullet-riddled in his home in Oak Park, Ill., by unknown assailants. He had been scheduled to appear before the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee to discuss his alleged involvement in a Central Intelligence Agency plot to assassinate Fidel Castro in the early 1960s."

Source: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Sam-Giancana

So, the guy was involved and worked with the CIA. Meaning, CIA could have been involved, too.

And they conveniently offed him to prevent him to talk. Such class.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#217

Post by in_cahoots »

JohnBooty wrote: post #73
croes wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they shoot at the same time?

The shots occurred in a span of several seconds, not simultaneously. I don't see anything implausible about a second shooter having Kennedy in his sights, waiting for the initial shots to be fired, and pulling the trigger once he heard the initial shot. There are a lot of implausible aspects to all of this, but that... doesn't seem like one.

What happened to the third bullet in this scenario?

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#218

Post by api »

croes wrote: post #76
JohnBooty wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shots occurred in a span of several seconds, not simultaneously. I don't see anything implausible about a second shooter having Kennedy in his sights, waiting for the initial shots to be fired, and pulling the trigger once he heard the initial shot. There are a lot of implausible aspects to all of this, but that... doesn't seem like one.

But that needs a bigger conspiracy than just kill JFK. Either there are two shooters working together from the beginning, or one knows about the other and the other does not.

People seem to go between lone gunman or giant conspiracy and exclude the middle. It could have been a conspiracy of say four people: two shooters, one insider providing info and cover, and someone behind and planning the whole thing.

Much easier to keep everything quiet too. The difficulty of keeping secrets increases exponentially with the number of people who know it.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#219

Post by kevinmchugh »

logicchains wrote: post #154
beowulfey wrote: post #148

At this point the effects of the JFK assassination are so far back in history that new knowledge of possibly real and alternative sequences of events should have little impact on society as it is now. Let’s say it was orchestrated by political enemies—what effect would this have on things today? The state of US government is so dramatically different from back then. This kind of discussion is really only interesting…

>This kind of discussion is really only interesting from a historical perspective. It doesn’t really have any bearing on modern politics or society. This is completely untrue. Some of his family members suspect he was murdered by the US intelligence agencies for planning to curb their power. Given the intelligence agencies have even more power now than back then, and are still not held accountable for their actions,…

The family member is RFK Jr., right?

RFK Jr. simultaneously believes that his father and uncle were killed by the intelligence state, and that they ought to be providing him protection, and that they want to kill him. I find his opinions pretty confusing on this matter

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#220

Post by ManuelKiessling »

dylan604 wrote: post #139
Apocryphon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great-grandkids even

or just trying to pay off the existing student debt for the grandkids

Wait, now it all makes sense: Biden‘s student loan relief program existed only to prevent this book from being written, but the plan failed!

Man, conspiracy theories are so easy — fun even!

Post reply on HN