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Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

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Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#211

Post by satvikpendem »

tomnipotent wrote: post #133
factorialboy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point. Apple tracks every app launch. And reports it to an external server. Not localized. Not anonymized.

You didn't make a point. App telemetry is absolutely benign compared to the kind of invasive ad tracking that Facebook participates in. There's no shortage of horror stories of poorly implemented Facebook Pixel integrations passing sensitive user data that marketers then use to create custom ad campaigns. Most recent examples that come to mind: https://www.extremetech.com/internet/341111-tax-filing-websi... https://g…

What is this false dichotomy? Both can be bad, even if one is less bad than the other. It doesn't make either "benign."

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#212

Post by r00fus »

amelius wrote: post #166
hedora wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the top hit for IDFA (the wikipedia article): > Starting in iOS 14.5, iPadOS 14.5, and tvOS 14.5, users are prompted to decide whether to opt-in or out of IDFA sharing before apps can query it. This choice can be altered in Settings.[2][3] In May, 2021, Verizon-owned advertisement analytics company Flurry Analytics reported that 96% of US users opted out of IDFA sharing.[4]

> 96% of US users opted out of IDFA sharing If it's so clear that users don't want to be tracked online, why don't we just ban it altogether? It would solve a lot of problems.

Sure, but that requires legislation or executive action.

Apple doing it unilaterally on their platform might invite anti-trust concerns.

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#213

Post by Scoring6931 »

endisneigh wrote: post #17

If you want privacy guarantees do not install or use anything connected to the internet. Even HN - with stylometry and a motivated actor it's easy to correlate your username here with any other publicly written text. An even more motivated actor could do this with privately written text (you know, all of those data breaches). Stay offline for your safety. This is obviously unrealistic for many in the modern era. So n…

Unless you're Chinese, right? https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#214

Post by amelius »

ryandrake wrote: post #52
endisneigh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what it will take for people to finally get fed up with creepy advertising companies. As long as people get "free stuff" people won't get fed up.

What "free stuff" is OP getting from Target and CVS in exchange for the data they are collecting and sharing? Nothing. We're already not getting free stuff and people still aren't fed up.

The free stuff is the website that shows the ad, at least that's what they want you to believe.

But ... it's not really free since the ad will just make products more expensive, since now you also pay for the adtech that's involved (besides paying with your personal data).

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#215

Post by hinkley »

Zambyte wrote: post #207
isodev wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple shows ads for apps in the App Store sans behavioural targeting. If there is a kind of “ethical ads” that’s as close as it gets.

> If there is a kind of “ethical ads” that’s as close as it gets. A news paper ad? A builtin board? I think advertisements that hijack your attention are always unethical. You should have to look for ads to see them.

I picked up a copy of Popular Mechanics yesterday and it took me a solid 2 seconds on half a dozen pages to determine if it was an ad or an article. The styles have sort of blended together and I don't think that's an accident.

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#216

Post by Timber-6539 »

isodev wrote: post #173
Timber-6539 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's by default opt-out and am pretty sure the prompt doesn't apply for Apple's own apps. And since you brought out the opt-out option, one can also block Facebook's trackers through uBlock and/or DNS filters. The defaults are what matters. From the same Wikipedia article, > Users can opt-out of IDFA via the "Limit Ad Tracking" (LAT) setting (and an estimated 20% do). 80% users never change the defaults.

On iOS tracking and access to personal information is always opt-in. It’s literally a modal alert asking if you want to give permission when an app requests to access the IDFA for the first time. Apple’s own apps don’t need to display the prompt because as per their privacy policy they don’t collect or use information for tracking purposes (which is also visible in the privacy labels of their apps in the App Store).

> Apple’s own apps don’t need to display the prompt because as per their privacy policy they don’t collect or use information for tracking purposes (which is also visible in the privacy labels of their apps in the App Store).

This is the privacy policy [0] of an example of their app, Apple News. I quote:

"Advertising

In order to deliver great content to you from leading publishers, Apple News is ad supported. If the Personalized Ads setting is on, Apple’s advertising platform may use information about your account, the topics and categories of stories you read, and publications you follow, subscribe to, or turn on notifications for to serve ads that are more relevant to you. We may also use information about your subscriptions to personalize your ads on the App Store."

[0] https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-news/

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#217

Post by hinkley »

innagadadavida wrote: post #95
nicce wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's ad business, however, is growing all the time. And in significant margins. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-is-an-ad-company-now https://www.statista.com/statistics/1330127/apple-ad-revenue...

> In 2022, Apple generated 4.7 billion U.S. dollars with its global advertising business. > By 2022, Facebook's ad revenues had hit $135.94 billion. $4.7B is not a small number but no where close to Facebook’s.

Apple is worth 3.5x as much as Facebook, so the expectation of revenues is 3.5x higher.

If Facebook were Apple's size they'd be doing 450 billion in ads.

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#218

Post by YeBanKo »

Simple fix.

Ballot measure to replace the “right to be forgotten” with the “permission to be remembered”, that need to be renewed every, 1-3 years. If companies fails to obtain permission in 3 years, then it must remove your data. Such permission is non transferable, meaning that if you started an account with Good Company, Inc. and it was acquired by Evil Corp, Inc. The latter need to get a new permission under the new name. Oh, and data brokers can’t have your info, unless they ask you for permission.

Right to “opt-out of sale” needs to be replaced with “option to opt-in”. Basically meaning you opt out by default and companies need your explicit permission to sell you data.

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#219

Post by JohnFen »

jonhohle wrote: post #36

I wonder what it will take for people to finally get fed up with creepy advertising companies. I received a letter from Target that by default they’ll sell my information to unaffiliated third parties and I have to call or write a letter to opt-out. I’m sure I agreed to that at some point (and anyone signing up for a loyalty program that doesn’t cost anything should realize that’s what they are agreeing to, even if t…

> wonder what it will take for people to finally get fed up with creepy advertising companies.

I wonder this every day. I got fed up years ago. Now, I'm simply enraged by it all. And, worse, it's an impotent rage since there's nothing I can do about it.

I already block as much tracking as possible, avoid giving money to companies that engage in these practices (or that make use of the services of companies that engage in these practices), pay in cash in physical stores, avoid online shopping as much as possible, etc.

And none of it is enough. Ad companies are at war with people, and are winning.

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#220

Post by JohnFen »

soperj wrote: post #93
toastal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you go the custom ROM + microG option that 98% of folks would never do… or you embrace the Linux phone OS which has no ‘apps’ (like that banking app that banned you for rooting your other Linux (Android) phone) & the telephony barely works if it even does. This duopoly sucks.

I just use my banking website from my phone. Why install apps?

I'm not even willing to do that. I physically go to a bank branch to interact with my bank.
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