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37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

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Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#211

Post by tomaskafka »

markstos wrote: post #60
gwbas1c wrote: post #43

Let's go back to wax cylinders, horses & buggies, and the old crank phone while we're at it! Jokes aside: What kind of new features and tangible improvements are coming? I get that "owning" a piece of software can have tangible value; but it depends on the purpose of the software and how it's used. I don't see a sudden revolution where all companies decide they want to run their own email servers and and host their o…

You do GIS projects infrequently as a hobby. Simple stuff. You want own some GIS software. Subscription is burdensome due to infrequent use and you don’t care about next year’s features.

Take a look at Slopes app's season pass. Use it 15 days per year? Buy a pass. Need it everyday? A subscription will be much cheaper per day of use.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#212

Post by tomaskafka »

okamiueru wrote: post #86

A model I would like to see is a variation of "buy once, and you own that software". Any and all fixes would be included. Extensions and features added on subsequent releases are also a "buy once" deal, and the price is calculated based on "distance" to what you own. This incentivizes development of features a user might want, but also avoids the "lock in" and other predatory practices so many companies deliberately…

What fixes? You already bought a software as is. If you expect n years of support, what happens after? Either you pay some more (=subscription), or you paid $ for n years of software (=subscription).

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#213

Post by [deleted] »

znpy wrote: post #185
giobox wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its always been an open question to me in the case of Adobe if rampant piracy in the 2000s helped rather than hinder them. If these teenagers went on to work in industry, they already knew the adobe suite inside out and likely ended up advocating the software and buying licenses in the workplace... As you probably rightly state, almost none of the folks pirating the software would have converted to real sales anyway.

> Its always been an open question to me in the case of Adobe if rampant piracy in the 2000s helped rather than hinder them. it's not an open question, there are studies about how piracy helps industries (it was about media, it was financed by the EU, but when they got the results they didn't like it so they didn't advertised it much). if not for product advocacy, consider product training: training is expensive and…

[deleted]

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#214

Post by tony2016 »

drewda wrote: post #159

Since 37signals has been having challenges hosting SaaS and hiring for dev/ops roles, it naturally makes sense that they'd be looking to shift that operational burden to their customers :) I'm being extra snarky. But I must admit that I've grown a lot more skeptical of this company in recent years. Their marketing about their products as well as about their open-source components has too much bravado. They can't just…

37Signals has been having challenges hosting SaaS and hiring? How So?

I don't use their products. They shifted to hosting from the cloud to on-prem. It seems to be they what they're doing.

Their salaries are in the top 10% of the market for non FAANG companies.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#215

Post by nirvdrum »

BXlnt2EachOther wrote: post #175
nirvdrum wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a huge improvement in flexibility and paying for what you use. Not to mention the software is always updated, so you don't need to worry about whether your image editor you purchased 7 years ago supports the RAW format of the camera that came out 2 years ago. I see this the other way. I don't want to be forced to upgrade. If you add valuable features, I'll pay for them. Otherwise, I'm happy to stick with what…

I'm not a huge fan of subscriptions but like the way JetBrains handled a few things: - if you're subscribed for 12 months, you get a perpetual license for the version at the start of that period (unfortunately not the end, but better than most subscriptions) - fairly significant discounts for second and third+ years. - they had a price increase either 2022 that was in line or below inflation, which they announced it…

I was apprehensive about the JetBrains one at first, but they sold me on having the perpetual license. It may have even just been a mental block. I was paying almost annually to upgrade IntelliJ IDEA (and sometimes RubyMine) as it was. The package that includes all of the IDEs was more than what I was paying just for IDEA, but cheaper than paying for upgrades on two products. I've dutifully subscribed since and enjoy access to all of the IDEs.

I may never use the perpetual license, but it made me feel better about the whole thing. I don't have to worry about what happens if my fortunes change and I can't afford one year. Or, I don't have to worry about vendor lock-in and a huge price increase. I don't want to invest time into a tool when the future of it is uncertain or where I could be cut off on a whim. This is a rare situation where I think everyone wins.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#216

Post by Breza »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #39
stanmancan wrote: post #2

My favourite licensing models for self-hosted software are perpetual fallback licenses. Jetbrains does this well and their description of it is: A perpetual fallback license is a license that allows you to use a specific version of software without an active subscription for it. The license also includes all bugfix updates, more specifically in X.Y.Z version all Z releases are included.

This is great until a company starts making file formats completely incompatible with back versions, making it impossible to use with friends or anyone else. Oh or when they just change the plan to subscription only anyways. I'm looking at you, Sketch.

This happened with me for Evernote. Incredibly frustrating. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised with how well the latest versions of Microsoft Office still support most non x formats (eg .doc, .xls).

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#217

Post by Breza »

dang wrote: post #121

> We’ll be launching the first product late 2023, with more coming in 2024. Looks like this is an announcement of an announcement. Those are off topic on HN. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Agreed. Admittedly, 37 Signals does have a great history of actually delivering on its announcements, but I'll withhold judgement until I actually see some real software.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#218

Post by photoGrant »

photoGrant wrote: post #9

We helped pioneer keeping you on the hook perpetually for a solution! Now we've extracted maximum value out of that we're going to offer an ever wilder idea! One big fat payment for the same thing you've spent years paying and subscribing to. Just one last attempt to extract every cent of good will out of a consumer before they truly cotton on. At least, that's my sour angle of it. As much as I want this 'model' agai…

Thanks to the staff at hand that helped bury this to the bottom. Now I know what (HN)'s priorities are. Protect the cash, ignore the weak.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#219

Post by okamiueru »

tomaskafka wrote: post #212
okamiueru wrote: post #86

A model I would like to see is a variation of "buy once, and you own that software". Any and all fixes would be included. Extensions and features added on subsequent releases are also a "buy once" deal, and the price is calculated based on "distance" to what you own. This incentivizes development of features a user might want, but also avoids the "lock in" and other predatory practices so many companies deliberately…

What fixes? You already bought a software as is. If you expect n years of support, what happens after? Either you pay some more (=subscription), or you paid $ for n years of software (=subscription).

That either/or seems a little bit to bombastic, don't you think? How things are typically done, is not the constraint for how things can be done.

It wasn't "N years of support". It was much simpler of a suggestion of. X.Y.Z versioning, where any increment of Z is free, then the pricing of a upgrade on X. or Y. is just some measure of distance to what you already have.

Simplicity in marketing is still more important than any fairness in sale. So, what I'm suggesting isn't a very good idea. But, I think it is interesting enough to think about. You might disagree on that point as well, but, I'm not here to argue.

- Version 1.0.0 of a software priced at 100 USD.

- Version 1.0.5 you get for free.

- Version 1.1.0 becomes available and you can upgrade for 2 USD, but you wait.

- Version 1.1.6 becomes available and you can upgrade for 2 USD. You do so.

Pros:

- A very friendly pricing for casual users.

- Similar incentive to develop new features for users to upgrade to, and get access immediately.

Cons:

- Maybe a bit more confusing pricing models.

- Non casual users don't think twice about the pricing anyways, and the pricing model becomes less predictable than a flat X pr month/year.

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