For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching • Hacker News Board

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#211

Post by mvnuweucxqokii » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:31 AM UTC

whynotminot wrote: post #208

mvnuweucxqokii wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strawman. The steelman version is something like the following chain of reasoning: (a) gender identity is something that everyone has that is distinct from sex, (b) with enough introspection, everyone can discover their true gender identity, (c) if you don't have a strongly felt gender identity, you need to introspect, (d) if introspection does not yield certainty then this suggests genderfluidity, or even w…

If this is the steel man god help this argument.

Just to be clear: are you saying the argument is bad because these things are never taught, or are you saying that these things are good to teach actually?

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#212

Post by LudwigNagasena » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:31 AM UTC

whynotminot wrote: post #161

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with the setup you outlined is that the central government has no say in what is being taught to kids. So no matter how similar homeschooling will look to government-controlled schooling, people with power will never stop attacking it because of that crucial nuisance.

The “I don’t want the government perspective imposed on my children” is so funny to me as a homeschooling argument. Go to schoolboard meetings. Talk to your kids and their teachers. Understand what your kids are learning. If you feel a perspective is missing, fill in the gaps. Your kids will be better off for seeing different perspectives, understanding basic argumentation, and coming to their own conclusions. Oh thi…

Does that line of thinking only apply to American public schools that teach values you like or would you suggest the same to Chinese, Russian and Iranian parents?

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#213

Post by willsmith72 » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:31 AM UTC

lugu wrote: post #207

I was told thought public school was invented, not to instruct, not to educate but to emancipate kids. Giving them a chance to see the world from a different perspective from their family. One might call it endoctrinement, yes, but if you are confronted to two concurrent belief systems, you are more likely to see them for what they are.

This sounds nice, but there's a huge correlation between belief systems of a family and those of their surrounding culture, and therefore those present at school.

If someone were instead to home-school their children, and use that as an opportunity to show their children different systems in different parts of their country or world, I think that would be far more effective.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#214

Post by colechristensen » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:32 AM UTC

lugu wrote: post #207

I was told thought public school was invented, not to instruct, not to educate but to emancipate kids. Giving them a chance to see the world from a different perspective from their family. One might call it endoctrinement, yes, but if you are confronted to two concurrent belief systems, you are more likely to see them for what they are.

"liberal arts" dictionary definition is literally this.

It has fallen behind though because the folks in charge have lost this as a goal and there are so many out there with expensive useless degrees who have trouble navigating the world.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#215

Post by 0xcde4c3db » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:34 AM UTC

kiba wrote: post #198

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think antibiotic resistant bacteria as a simple example. That is why I explicitly wrote "macroevolution" and not "evolution". The emergence antibiotic-resilient bacteria is a phenomenon of microevolution , whose existence is, as far as I am aware, much less controversial in evangelical Christian circles. To my understanding, the offending topic in these evangelical Christian circles rather seems to be whether macro…

The distinction between macroevolution and microevolution sounds like nonsense. There's too much evidence for me to believe that evolution doesn't happen, at any scale. Evolution is clearly observable and foundational to biology. Whereas Christian creation stories always felt like mythology, sounds human centric and made up. I read stuff like the Epic of Gilgamesh and realized that some stories in the bibles are base…

> The distinction between macroevolution and microevolution sounds like nonsense.

It is nonsense through the lens of biology, but it's nonsense that's very ideologically convenient to certain demographics, which (perhaps paradoxically) means that terms to talk about the distinction become useful in some sociopolitical or anthropological contexts. For what it's worth, the very particular term for the religiously-motivated typology that accepts microevolution while rejecting macroevolution is baraminology.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#216

Post by Spooky23 » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:34 AM UTC

whynotminot wrote: post #161

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with the setup you outlined is that the central government has no say in what is being taught to kids. So no matter how similar homeschooling will look to government-controlled schooling, people with power will never stop attacking it because of that crucial nuisance.

The “I don’t want the government perspective imposed on my children” is so funny to me as a homeschooling argument. Go to schoolboard meetings. Talk to your kids and their teachers. Understand what your kids are learning. If you feel a perspective is missing, fill in the gaps. Your kids will be better off for seeing different perspectives, understanding basic argumentation, and coming to their own conclusions. Oh thi…

The point is that there’s no reasonable - folks doing this have deeply expressed beliefs and if you disagree you’re evil. They only sound reasonable when speaking in general terms.

I was a school board president of a catholic school that for the most part aligns with state and professional standards and added faith and cultural material not appropriate in a secular school. The kids get a solid education -

We got “invaded” by some extremely conservative folks, funded by some organization who sought to move to a curriculum derived from a homeschool program where books centered (exclusively) around classic western texts. In the K-12 curriculum kids weren’t taught about Asia until WW2. Africa and India do not exist. They were also concerned with “woke” issues, like girls being allowed to wear pants.

We were able to “beat” them, but it damaged the institution.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#217

Post by MrPatan » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:36 AM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #200

MrPatan wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if it's not about missing perspectives, but exposure to infohazards?

As someone who was homeschooled, I'm having a hard time coming up with an "infohazard" I avoided exposure to other than things like "the theory of evolution" or "the concept of sex" or "it turns out 'the slaves were treated quite well' isn't exactly true"

My point exactly

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#218

Post by sanp » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:36 AM UTC

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #131

andrewstuart wrote: post #111

Home schooling is a real burden on many parents who aren't professional teachers of course and are pulled in many directions. One of the most exciting emerging trends in home schooling is to pool the resources of multiple home schooling parents. It's simply not practical for parents to commit all the hours needed for full time home schooling 9 till 3:30PM every day. So home schooling parents can team up and share the…

The biggest problem with the setup you outlined is that the central government has no say in what is being taught to kids. So no matter how similar homeschooling will look to government-controlled schooling, people with power will never stop attacking it because of that crucial nuisance.

Why shouldn’t the government have a say in what is taught to children? Children are not their parent’s property. These are future citizens and I would prefer that society has a say in what is taught to them. In a democratic system the government represents the will of the society.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#219

Post by rayiner » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:36 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #188

rayiner wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Homeschooling is, to a first approximation, the most individualistic approach to a child's education possible. In a superficial way, sure. The dominant American culture is intensely individualist. So if you don’t want your kids to grow up that way, you need to buck conformity in that narrow sense. > If your goal is to instill values of mutual cooperation, a sense of obligation, etc. in a pluralistic society, I'd th…

The prevailing culture in large city public schools turns those ideas on their head. The focus is on individual self-actualization, and questioning authority, hierarchy, elders, and norms. It’s about what society owes individuals (“rights”) instead of what individuals owe society. There’s a veneer of cooperation and obligation, but it’s framed in terms of what “privileged” (whites, the rich) owe everyone else, not wh…

I went to American public schools in the 1990s, in a very moderate county. Several teachers joined with the students to protest the county’s attempt to impose a dress code.

And what does Fox News have to do with anything?

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#220

Post by giantg2 » Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 1:37 AM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #200

MrPatan wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if it's not about missing perspectives, but exposure to infohazards?

As someone who was homeschooled, I'm having a hard time coming up with an "infohazard" I avoided exposure to other than things like "the theory of evolution" or "the concept of sex" or "it turns out 'the slaves were treated quite well' isn't exactly true"

I'd imagine most info hazards come from the other kids and not the curriculum itself. Plenty of crude, incorrect, or even dangerous info coming from the other kids. Not that much different from how Hollywood portrays many topics (drugs, alcohol, sex, legal consequences, etc). So it's likely those ideas would be encountered even when homeschooling, possibly at a lower rate though.