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NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

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Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#211

Post by jeffbee »

mcny wrote: post #130
jeffbee wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a city as hilly as sf getting around in an electric car is a real benefit that saves a great deal of effort. I’d rather have core bus lines that run on 2-3 minute headways instead, but I’ll take what I can get.

I wonder... Could we sort of mix this self driving car technology with an app that does something like Uber pool and put it on buses? I am not thinking going to a different state. I'm just thinking local public transit. If we have enough buses and assuming there is no rain or snow, passengers just punch in where they want to go and one of the buses takes them there? I feel like there is so much valuable data getting…

I don't see why it needs to be on-demand. Why can't it be a Zoox-sized vehicle that simply goes up and down the street and arrives every minute? If there was a tiny bus that came down every street every minute, not only would that amount to almost zero traffic, it would also be the most brilliant transit service ever deployed. You wouldn't need the app, or even route planning. You only need the driving tech.

This applies best to central cities with a grid layout of course, but that describes San Francisco well enough.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#212

Post by martinald »

ghaff wrote: post #177
dageshi wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd assume so? The biggest expense has to be the drivers time right?

Maybe--but probably not to the degree that everything else is almost too cheap to meter. I think the IRS rate is something like $0.67 per mile these days which is, while arguably high as a marginal cost, probably a pretty good place to serve as a baseline for self-driving costs (assuming the cost of the vehicle isn't significantly higher).

I mean not really. I would imagine most public transit journeys are less than a few miles in the most part, so at $.67/mi you are going to see public transit become very poor in comparison to a bus or train fare.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#213

Post by 3cats-in-a-coat »

mannykannot wrote: post #206
3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting, because this is how your response sounded to me. Is there no dogma about how everyone should group together and take back the means of production? There is a very large, prominent movement about this response to capitalism. My point is, that theory and practice differ, and when they differ it’s not the practice that is wrong, but the theory. Every time people banded together to take the means of pro…

> My point is, that theory and practice differ, and when they differ it’s not the practice that is wrong, but the theory. Your socio-economic theory is at odds with what happened in the so-called western world over the last three centuries, but to understand why, one would need to step away from over-generalizing just the most dramatic parts of history, and study the boring bits as well.

Would’ve been nice if your comment had any specific argument except a verbose take on “you’re wrong, because reasons”.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#214

Post by bitsage »

treis wrote: post #193
bitsage wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m of the same mindset. A cab is still a cab to me, even if it’s autonomous. We’ll still have to deal with traffic all the same. Uber and Lyft showed us ride share even worsens congestion in cities. As a result, in dense locales, taking the train can often be quicker and cheaper than hailing or ordering a ride during rush hour. While other developed nations show us it’s possible to reduce our accident rate per mile…

>We’ll still have to deal with traffic all the same. It's not the same because the time can be productive or used for leisure. Plus far less stressful and tiring than driving.

Well I could say the same for a human driven cab or transit. My rides are often too short to do anything productive anyways. Even if I were driving, I could listen to a podcast for leisure, same as when I take other forms of transport.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#215

Post by mannykannot »

3cats-in-a-coat wrote: post #213
mannykannot wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is, that theory and practice differ, and when they differ it’s not the practice that is wrong, but the theory. Your socio-economic theory is at odds with what happened in the so-called western world over the last three centuries, but to understand why, one would need to step away from over-generalizing just the most dramatic parts of history, and study the boring bits as well.

Would’ve been nice if your comment had any specific argument except a verbose take on “you’re wrong, because reasons”.

It's more like "you're wrong, because your theory does not even correspond to evidence we have around us." The reasons why your doom-laden prognostications did not inevitably come to pass are not, however, reducible to a paragraph or two.

As for being verbose, compare it to the post I was replying to.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#216

Post by zemvpferreira »

lr4444lr wrote: post #204
Diffusion3166 wrote: post #197

Am I the only one finding it hard to be excited for this? It seems like automated taxis: 0. Encourage the use of cars in cities rather than public transit & walkability. 1. Centralize wealth by replacing payments to many drivers with payments to one large company. 2. Allow for further surveillance of individuates. It seems likely that Google will eventually create ad inventory by adding screens to the cars and incorp…

My wife lost 2 close relatives to accidental vehicular death. She's thrilled.

Hear hear. Anything that replaces humans at the wheel is a fantastic thing in my book. Road traffic injuries kill close to 1.5 million people every year. The sooner we can have robocars and robobikes replace all driving, the better. I don't care how much privacy that erodes in the short term.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#217

Post by BurningFrog »

rob74 wrote: post #148
belugacat wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does anyone really believe anymore that it will be cheap, given how expensive ride share services are? I used to own a car in SF, and I definitely spend way less money every month on Lyft + the occasional weekend Getaround than I did on insurance/gas/repairs/the occasional tow or parking ticket when I had my car (not even counting initial acquisition). Obviously depends on a lot of factors, but it’s not that clear…

If robo-taxis actually manage to reduce the number of people that own cars, it also has other advantages - mainly less need for parking spaces.

A robo-taxi driving 24/7 replaces 24 cars driving 1h/day, 23 of which are parked on average.

This would be a huge improvement in resource efficiency.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#218

Post by ghaff »

martinald wrote: post #212
ghaff wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe--but probably not to the degree that everything else is almost too cheap to meter. I think the IRS rate is something like $0.67 per mile these days which is, while arguably high as a marginal cost, probably a pretty good place to serve as a baseline for self-driving costs (assuming the cost of the vehicle isn't significantly higher).

I mean not really. I would imagine most public transit journeys are less than a few miles in the most part, so at $.67/mi you are going to see public transit become very poor in comparison to a bus or train fare.

>I would imagine most public transit journeys are less than a few miles in the most part

That's because local public transit is mostly not viable unless you have densities that mean most trips are only a few miles and pickups/dropoffs are nearby start and destination points.

If I were to do the 30 minute drive into my nominal office (which is a very typical commute outside of cities), you're looking at a good $25/day commute cost (ignoring any deadheading to get a car to pick me up on either end). People generally ignore the cost of routine driving.

Re: NY Times Rides in Waymo Robotaxis in SF

#219

Post by pb7 »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #209
prepend wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is everyone employed and happy? No Relatively speaking, it’s the best it has ever been in the history of humanity. Of course it’s hard to measure happiness and we’ll never be perfect but we have greater safety, lower violence, more food, more work, etc etc. I wonder if people had succeeded in stopping the tractor because it displaced workers. Of course it displaced workers. Workers who now do more valuable work. Or…

I don't disagree that we live in a relatively good time right now, but I do wonder if this is the best it has ever been in the history of humanity. We have more pollution (air, water, noise, light), more cancer, more heart disease, more obesity, more addiction, more suicide, much worse environmental impact, and so on (though these are the worst that I can think of off the top of my head). Your points about safety, vi…

Not interested in commenting on the rest but do we have more cancer or are we better at detecting cancer?
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