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How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

charity.wtf

211–220 of 304 posts

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#211
post #63

I feel like this is missing a "know when it's time to call it quits" section.

The POV of this article is a founder / co-founder though; calling it quits in those cases means possibly leaving a LOT of money on the table, or having to buy the other party out.

It's not so much a human relationship as it's a business relationship with high stakes. Human relationships can pass, business relationships become expensive.

How many people stay in a married relationship because of factors outside of themselves?

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#212

> Say “please” and “thank you” a lot. I remember a previous role the team leaders all went on a management training course. Everyone came back and started adding "please" to every request. I found it really patronising and felt like I was being spoken to like a 5 year old. > "Can you run the SQL update in prod?" Vs > "Can you run the SQL update in prod please?" The "please" sounds like an exasperated parent that is f…

Never went on a management course and never been a manager, I always say please and thankyou. It's polite. Sorry you have a chip on your shoulder about it though.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#213

> Say “please” and “thank you” a lot. I remember a previous role the team leaders all went on a management training course. Everyone came back and started adding "please" to every request. I found it really patronising and felt like I was being spoken to like a 5 year old. > "Can you run the SQL update in prod?" Vs > "Can you run the SQL update in prod please?" The "please" sounds like an exasperated parent that is f…

Yeah if it's just tacked on at the end it may come across as manipulative. There's better ways to rephrase it that is less patronizing, such as:

"Please run the SQL update in prod and notify me when it's complete."

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#214
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

You don't put labor at the same level as imprisonment, aren't you? You're free to leave the employer. If you want to sacrifice your life/free to to gain something in the specific target area you already know that this behavior is expected and usual there. Labor is only imprisonment if you degrade yourself to it.

sorry should have added more context, this isn't about prison. It's game theory about limits of cooperation in low trust environments.

"The prisoner's dilemma is a game theory thought experiment that involves two rational agents, each of whom can cooperate for mutual benefit or betray their partner ("defect") for individual reward"

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you trusted that a sacrifice would be received, you wouldn't need to make it. You'd already have trust. Instead, both sides will view themselves as disadvantaged. That's how you got into this mess. You can do it anyway, and live with the fact that you expect it to be a waste. Sometimes that touches off a virtuous cycle. Sometimes it reinforces a vicious one. There's no way to know beforehand.

The question is: is it worth it? How far do you have to degrade yourself before you decide that the other person won't come around? Maybe it's better to just split and spend your effort elsewhere.

Degrade is an interesting word. I am comfortable changing for others to make them comfortable because the behavior is not about me and I simply know myself a enough to not mind.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#216

> Say “please” and “thank you” a lot. I remember a previous role the team leaders all went on a management training course. Everyone came back and started adding "please" to every request. I found it really patronising and felt like I was being spoken to like a 5 year old. > "Can you run the SQL update in prod?" Vs > "Can you run the SQL update in prod please?" The "please" sounds like an exasperated parent that is f…

It depends on the culture. Come to Eastern Europe (and I guess to other similar cultures, South America maybe?) and see how far you can go without saying "please" or "thank you". Not that far, I can tell you that.

Even though things are beginning to change for the worst in tech world, but, then again, many of the tech people in here see themselves as North-Westerners who happened to be born in the wrong place.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#217

This is all well and good advice. But sometimes you have to work with people who demonstrate traits of Narcissism Personality Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder. E.g. someone who never accepts responsibility or someone frequently demonstrating emotional lability. I am not sure the best course of action in these situations.

There are far, far more problems in the DSM-5 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5 ) than just Narcissism and Borderline. Some people have long "cycle times" in their symptoms. Or random-ish "episodes". Or are perfectly fine - until some f'ing idiot new psychiatrist assigned to them decides to switch them off a medication that was working fine for them, to something "new". (This has happened more than once to a good friend's niece. Fortunately she's survived...)

And there are plenty of people with no real psychiatric disorder, but who are "problematic" to deal with.

And there is the question of how interested the other person is in rebuilding trust.

And there is just asking yourself "am I a person with the the personality, understanding, skills, and patience to deal with this situation?".

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#218

> Say “please” and “thank you” a lot. I remember a previous role the team leaders all went on a management training course. Everyone came back and started adding "please" to every request. I found it really patronising and felt like I was being spoken to like a 5 year old. > "Can you run the SQL update in prod?" Vs > "Can you run the SQL update in prod please?" The "please" sounds like an exasperated parent that is f…

Indeed. A much better approach is to say thank you if something was done if it was demanded, even for daily business tasks.

Usually the 'please' is superficial because there is no way to say 'no' without an excuse.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you trusted that a sacrifice would be received, you wouldn't need to make it. You'd already have trust. Instead, both sides will view themselves as disadvantaged. That's how you got into this mess. You can do it anyway, and live with the fact that you expect it to be a waste. Sometimes that touches off a virtuous cycle. Sometimes it reinforces a vicious one. There's no way to know beforehand.

The question is: is it worth it? How far do you have to degrade yourself before you decide that the other person won't come around? Maybe it's better to just split and spend your effort elsewhere.

Super important point. And I'd say not even about degrading but more about deviating from own true self. In relationships, the need for security / protection is often measured in the degree of sacrifice the partner is willing to offer up. The problem is it's a temporary effect as this new sacrifice will at some point becomes the new baseline.

I used to sacrifice too much thinking this was how to express love, but often it's counter productive. Either becoming a crutch for the partner or completely losing a sense of self.

Example is phone messages. My girl used to get insecure and ask to see them, I had nothing to hide but obliged. Until I recognise this was feeding insecurity and crossing boundaries. I changed my perspective and the next time I said no. That was met with "arr you hiding something" (i wasnt) but explained concept of sovereignty. She stopped asking. It certainly puts the responsibility on her in that case to deal with her past issues rather than me being a bandaid for them.

That's one example, and I'm just as often the one doing the wrong in my relationship. Interesting learning experiences. But me taking this firmer position has been very important in my wellness.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#220
post #73

My number one advice for handling difficult people is try not to internalize their behavior. It’s not about you or anything you did. It’s a “them” problem. Articles like this can make people on the receiving end of bad behavior are somehow at fault because they’re not saying please/thank you, etc. it’s a common fallacy, for example, that victims try to anticipate an abusers behavior and take on their own shoulders ma…

> It’s not about you or anything you did. It’s a “them” problem. It’s much easier to consider a conflict a “them” problem. That’s most people’s default. I’ve heard thousands of people complain about “them”, but they were never being abused or bullied. Instead you probably want to default to a conflict resolution attempt, or two or three, or whatever your tolerance is with that person. If those don’t work, then it’s a…

That’s exactly right

When I say “difficult people” I define it as you’ve put in energy over time and it hasn’t been reciprocated. The other side hasn’t owned their part. Can’t admit mistakes after you have.

But really if you’ve given it a go, and it just feels not great, unsafe, icky, whatever. Just trust your gut. Don’t overanalyze it.

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