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We are all animals at night

hazlitt.net

211–220 of 295 posts

Re: We are all animals at night

#211

> I felt little of the camaraderie I once did while working night shifts. I’m unsure why I felt this dissonance, and it occurs to me now that it could have been more self-imposed than anything. I doubt it. I've worked days and nights at different times in the same place, at a couple of jobs in different parts of the country. There's a real difference between what people are like in the daytime and nighttime worlds, a…

What do you think causes this difference?

Fear, of course.

Abroad in the night, the human world grows tenuous, and one's connection to it likewise. Most people can learn to live in that, but you never feel perfectly at home with it. Nor should you; there's nothing like it to dispel the comfortable, foolish illusion that the world belongs to us, and not the other way around.

Humans are better, I find, for a little fear of that sort. It makes us stick closer together than we do otherwise, gives us more incentive to look for the good in one another; camaraderie comes much easier, and that is part of what I miss. Both those jobs were customer service, and even the people on the phone were different: stranger certainly, sometimes desperate, but almost never spiteful like the day shift often was. The sun revolves around every narcissist, of course, but those excepted there is less pretense in all of us in night.

Its very strangeness is the rest of what I miss. I find it frightful too, of course, but never because it's trying, which counts for a lot with me after living so long with humans. There's a lot to appreciate in that strangeness, for anyone who understands fear well enough to feel and not be driven by it - to know the difference between being afraid and being made to feel afraid.

There's a wild and ancient beauty in the night to which nothing wrought by human hands compares, and an inescapable reminder that beyond all the frantic work of busy human hands, something vast beyond our comprehension still abides: the world itself, from which we never stop fleeing, despite that we neither can nor need.

I hope whatever of this species emerges from the other side of the next few hundred years understands that better than today's version does - I can't imagine how they'd fail to, at any rate. I think they'll better understand the night than most of us can, too. Maybe by then the consequences of our lethal hubris will have far enough abated they'll even have some time to enjoy it, the way I did decades ago when I last lived a nighttime life.

Re: We are all animals at night

#212

[flagged]

I lived in the shadows in Canada a time. You're not allowed to leave - the US border blocks, among others. So "going to Omaha, Nebraska" is unrealistic. Experiences of a foreign country where perhaps there's somewhere to go to find low end work, and be paid enough to live somewhere ... that's a dream. One not available in far too much of the world - yes including Canada these days.

And the cost of living in most of Canada is higher than most of the USA, and the pay is lower.

Re: We are all animals at night

#213

This article is too left-wing echochamber for my tastes. Of the form - it can be done, and no-one literally dies, therefore it may be done. People don't work to marginalize prostitution because it's "the only field in which women outearn men". People work to marginalize prostitution because it's fundamentally morally bankrupt. Most well adjusted people eventually realise that casual sex is not the key to happiness in…

I don't agree that it's fundamentally morally bankrupt. I do think that in practice it's often highly exploitative, and when a given sex worker might have been lured in by desperation it's immoral to roll the dice. Is that not sufficient reason to work to marginalise it?

Re: We are all animals at night

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No disrespect, but I am not sure if casinos are in the business of helping mankind. Therefore, it is not only the casino clients that behave badly. The fact that money changes hands means nothing.

Humans have some deeply self-destructive tendencies. It's not just a predator/prey or an oppressor/oppressed relationship. I'm not sure that if we ban all outlets for self-destructive behavior that something good will come of it. Offering some amount of consentual self-destruction is absolutely in the business of helping mankind, in my opinion.

>Offering some amount of consentual self-destruction is absolutely in the business of helping mankind,

Prostitution, substance abuse, suicide, and other self-destructive acts, are the only measure that is available to us for enforcing that Leviathan keeps its end of the social contract: that our bodies and minds are first and foremost our own, and only when we infringe on others' freedom may ours be curtailed.

The day one becomes unable to destroy oneself is is the day freedom becomes permanently unattainable.

Re: We are all animals at night

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think in providing those things, men then become entitled to sex or attention? You seem to have skipped the take the risk of being rejected part of that comment when reading.

If the ego damage of getting turned down by a prospective romantic partner is a risk worthy of any note at all then you need to be in therapy, not on the dating market.

You sound just like my therapist, but you charge less

Re: We are all animals at night

#216
post #96

Beautifully written, even if I don’t necessarily agree with every single point made. Especially towards the end, I feel that she tries to emphasize the nobility and radical nature of this work, taking umbrage at Eric Adam’s use of the word “low-skill” to describe some of these sorts of jobs. But it seems somewhat belied by the fact that, afaict, as soon as she had the means to escape, she did. And the romanticization…

The author didn’t assert that sex work is the only job where women get to call the shots. The author suggested that could be a reason why it’s marginalized. Because if it was legitimized, then women would call the shots.

> Because if it was legitimized, then women would call the shots.

If prostitution was legitimized, way fewer shots would have to be called in the first place. Apparently nobody wants that

Re: We are all animals at night

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, humanity would be better off fighting our self destructive tendencies instead of letting those with power take advantage of their situation and squeezing the ignorant dry.

Fighting them means offering less destructive ways to release those urges, and for the vast majority of people, that's what casinos are. If we're talking about destructive urges, another popular one would be alcohol, and yet we have many many examples of how it needs to be accessible to an extent to serve as a release, even if sometimes it still causes serious damage.

What are those examples?

Re: We are all animals at night

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not read it that way and I think that she would have phrased it differently if so. “an industry where women get to call the shots” she would have said “would get” imo if your interpretation was correct, just as you use ‘would’ in your comment. I took her to be describing sex work in the present, not some hypothetical future sex work. Here is the excerpt for those who want to judge for themselves: ‘Unlike sex wo…

People in power work to marginalize it because they’re threatened by it. It’s pretty successfully marginalized if a woman can get arrested for it even while sacrificing economic profits to a pimp or massage parlor. Maybe the author could have been more explicit about it but to my reading sex workers can’t be both marginalized and calling the shots.

It's marginalized because it's a shitty job, like every other shitty job (source: I've worked a lot of shitty jobs.)

Re: We are all animals at night

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the word "massage parlour" is some local euphemism for some kind of sex work and its implied they aren't actually masseurs/masseuses? I'm genuinely curious where you live that this is not the case. It is such a euphemism in every Anglophone country, and (large parts of?) Germany and Italy. It is usually illegal (or at least unlicensed) even in places where prostitution has some kind of legal status.

I spent a fair bit of my youth where there's been legalised brothels (or at least I assume they were through most of my childhood) and sex work. And on the other hand there's also physiotherapists and actual massages. I don't particularly like massages that much, personally, but if needing one I go in and tap my health card and that helps cover it. So presumably there was no need to hide the business behind the euphe…

> Even where I am now, i know there's brothels and presumably private sex workers and if i want a massage I go and I book a massage.

I don’t think many people would be able to mix up these places after seeing them. If you only wanted a massage for health reasons you would almost certainly not consider going there.

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