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Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

nytimes.com

211–220 of 268 posts

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it takes about 10 seconds to click over to byrneseyeview's profile and see that he's been on hn for years and is obviously not a shill. It reflects poorly on you that you'd rather accuse someone of being dishonest than take a little effort to check your paranoia.

He's been on here for years, and so have I. I have often wondered, though, about his alacrity to side with the establishment, in defense of investment bankers, against net neutrality, etc., and what his motivation is.

It reflects poorly on you that you can't conceive of someone widely disagreeing with you in good faith.

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#212
I worked in the business trading interest rate products before deciding to return to school. I still miss the game a lot and waste way too much time trying to supplement my PhD stipend trading stocks, equity options, and futures.

Mr. Smith's editorial describes a lot of the reasons I left when paired with the dire outlook for the business now and back then. As others sort of noted, much of the business changed simply from the sources of profits. OTC (Over the Counter, i.e, non exchange traded) derivatives dealing and proprietary trading started driving all revenue. From a cursory glance OTC derivatives create a zero sum game with the client. The bank takes one side, the client takes the other. Yes, on a large enough scale things should balance out, and perhaps no moral hazards will develop, but at the most fundamental level the client or the dealer wins.

This opens the door to a very unique class of businesses including casinos, some annuity providers, buyers' agents in real estate where the provider has a strong conflict of interest with their client. Previously banks did not have these conflicts, or the divisons with these conflicts were not the dominant earners. Well maybe M&A advisors on the buyers' side had an issue, but that was generally less lucrative to advising the seller or on a hot IPO.

The question becomes, is this a Goldman problem, or a banking industry problem? I am studying for the CFA, simply because the information is fresh in my head, and I may need it some day. CFA ethics clearly states that one must always put the client's interests ahead of the firm. I remain foreign to the sort of magic that allows for this, while allowing one to operate as a derivatives dealer and stay solvent.

Simultaneous, Mr. Smith forgets about the sort of horrible clients these banks must deal with on a daily basis. Remember that the best guys at these firms are the ones that get spots at hedge funds, asset managers, and sovereign wealth funds. They know how to screw a counter-party better than anyone. Anyone who has ever sat on a fixed income trading desk knows how viciously PIMCO swings around their size to trade through the market. Every junior trader has gotten crossed by a non-repetent small hedge fund. I doubt the clients ever thought Goldman or any other bank was their friend. To assume that a bank would help a client when there is blood in the water is lunacy.

You can probably tell I still have a lot of unresolved issues about exactly what is right here. I have major issues with conflicts of interests. If I ever return to finance, I will stay on the buy side. At least that way my interests and the client's are fully aligned. I deliver higher returns and get paid more.

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#213
post #210
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You "could not" help her? That's not exactly true, is it? It's just that if you had, there would have been negative consequences for yourself, and so, you didn't. I think the question isn't so much whether he could have tried to help her, as whether it would have done any good. The end result might well have been no improvement in her situation and a drastic worsening of his. In other words, negative consequences f…

Perhaps the positive consequence could be the simple matter of having done something because it is right. Perhaps he could look back on that period of time and reflect that, rather than watch it happen, he took action. Even if it accomplished nothing, he could at least say "I saw something wrong and I worked to right it." What can he say now? "I saw something wrong, watched it happen, and vacationed in Europe until I…

There is a lot of gray with this story. One IC vs many middle managers and a VP will never turn out well for the IC, especially at Microsoft. I don't know what I could have done. To whom would I have sounded the alarm?

What I did: "I told my manager," "realized it's a systemic problem," "I was a friend to someone who needed one," "I helped her leave and get her next job," and "I quit."

I made lemonade and enjoyed time in Europe. But I don't think there was a choice to fight.

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#214

I used to work for Lehman Brothers; since then I've worked for Amazon and Google in product capacities. (I was a PM before I went to MBA and then LB.) The biggest problem was that there's little incentive in financial products to pursue true creativity or innovation that generates value for your clients. Both the market and the regulatory climate make it very hard, and very risky, to develop and market new products.…

I used to work for Lehamn too, M&A. Now working on my own startup. I also found that the focus was on our incentives, and this is where the tech industry is different in that it sets the incentives aligned with the users.

Wall Street could do the same by changing its incentives, and grow massively together with their clients. Once they understand that clients all the way to the end ("crowd") investor can also be happy users.

One thing that bothered me about this article though, is that it just seemed like he had a personal reason to make his superiors look bad. After all, he built his entire career in Goldman, so why burn your bridges? Unless they are already burned and you are leaving with a blast anyway, and maybe you are trying to get back at someone.

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HackerNews got me - moving to a tech firm

What kind of work will you be doing? I'm in a similar situation (M&A side though), and I'm not sure what kind of value I could bring to a tech firm without the coding skills that are needed in a early stage startup.

Forecasting, pricing and marketing analytics roles are all good transitions. Lots of excel still necessary - all you really need to learn is some SQL and maybe R/SAS.

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#216
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently work at Google, obviously speaking for myself and not my employer. In my experience - yes, this moral decay is a necessary part of the current corporate world. Or any corporate world. Or really, any world without the possibility of failure baked into it. I've seen a lot of idiotic decisions made at Google, many of which have been complained about on Hacker News, many more of which are hidden causes of thing…

I really think that you're completely missing the point in defending Google and maybe Goldman Sachs by saying that their decisions are ok because they are made rationally. Rationality is emotionless and mechanical. It's about making a reasonable decision based on whatever information is available to you. However, rational decisions do not involve morals, culture, or feelings. This is exactly what companies like Googl…

Rational decisions correctly apply information and resources to optimize values that the decider cares about. (meta level: you can also be rational in deciding how much effort to allocate to MAKING a particular decision - deliberating or gathering more info).

Those values can include morals, culture, and feelings.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawVulcan

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