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The past is not true

sive.rs

211–220 of 362 posts

Re: The past is not true

#211

The past is real. Your memories, feelings and interpretations of it may not be. Reality is not subjective. You are.

Because of quantum mechanics this is a genuinely open philosophical question. The equations which time evolve the wave function are time-symmetric, which means that even if you know the current state of the universe's wave function somehow, you still only get a probabilistic projection for the state in the past. I think this leaves open the genuine physical possibility that the past does not exist in the same way that the present exists. A lot comes down to what you think about the ontology of quantum mechanics.

Re: The past is not true

#212
post #24

Do you know the concept of space-time, block universe, B-theory of time, etc? How physics assumes that the laws of physics don't know the notion of "now"? And how physicists usually start every calculation with "let X denote the set of events", all the past and future events? Isn't that depressing? The future is true, even if we can't know it. (Even in a finite, discrete and deterministic universe, which we can compu…

There is no fixed way to slice up the universe into 3d slices.

Re: The past is not true

#213
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what's inside Mark Wahlberg's heart, but let's suppose it's someone whom, for the sake of argument, we know truly regrets their actions: what are they supposed to do if another person doesn't forgive them?

Accept that sometimes when you do a bad thing that permanently harms someone else you don't deserve forgiveness (not everyone is christian FFS) and it's not wrong for that to follow you around forever. If that makes you uncomfortable, too fucking bad, don't irreversibly blind someone.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Re: The past is not true

#214
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what's inside Mark Wahlberg's heart, but let's suppose it's someone whom, for the sake of argument, we know truly regrets their actions: what are they supposed to do if another person doesn't forgive them?

Accept that sometimes when you do a bad thing that permanently harms someone else you don't deserve forgiveness (not everyone is christian FFS) and it's not wrong for that to follow you around forever. If that makes you uncomfortable, too fucking bad, don't irreversibly blind someone.

Accepting those things seems like a miserable way to live. No thanks. I prefer to move on with my life, even when I was wronged.

Re: The past is not true

#215
post #2

In an alternate universe: the lady couldn’t walk, got obese and died of a heart attack 10 years ago. So, the past isn’t true until it is and then, maybe, it’s even worse. Not sure what to make of this story.

Reminds me of: https://thedailyzen.org/2015/03/20/zen-story-maybe/ There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. “Such bad luck,” they said sympathetically. “Maybe,” the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. “How wonderful,” the neighbors exclaime…

this story is in Charlie Wilson's War https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2cjVhUrmII

Re: The past is not true

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accept that sometimes when you do a bad thing that permanently harms someone else you don't deserve forgiveness (not everyone is christian FFS) and it's not wrong for that to follow you around forever. If that makes you uncomfortable, too fucking bad, don't irreversibly blind someone.

Accepting those things seems like a miserable way to live. No thanks. I prefer to move on with my life, even when I was wronged.

This is about if you have wronged someone else, not if you are wronged,

If you've wronged someone else, maybe you should live miserably if you can't possibly make up for the wrong.

Re: The past is not true

#217
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>actual facts You see how quickly you are to believe these are the "actual facts"? That's how quickly they were to believe their "actual facts" as well. That is the story. Not the facts. What we tell ourselves, what we tell others. This is why they brought up memories, an unstable collection of flashes in our mind, and we use these to craft a story. The story has changed, and will continue to change, you're in the pr…

So both of them based their story on flimsy/incomplete evidence and they keep reshaping their stories. If only there were an objective reality to know which car was in the wrong. /s

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting the /s here, but:

> If only there were an objective reality to know which car was in the wrong /s

This, but sincerely! Problem is there isn't an objective reality to know which car was in the wrong. There's only each participants' recollection of the event—both flawed. She thought her inattention was the cause of the wreck, he thought his failing to yield was the cause. Who is right? Both of them? Just her? Just him? 80% him, 20% her?

There is no objective way to answer any of this. What happened during that accident only exists today in the minds of the drivers. Sure, you can look at photos of the aftermath and determine that this fender was bent, or that airbag deployed. But you can't get a similar (objective) level of understanding about the actions of the drivers leading up to the wreck.

When they met, he learned that she was not paralyzed (and that his understanding of the past was wrong in that aspect), and she learned that he blamed himself rather than blaming her. By comparing notes, they both got a better version of "the past" in their minds, but there's still room for more variances and disagreements on what exactly happened.

There may be an objective reality. But there's no way we can completely understand it. We can only know what our limited senses tell us. As time marches on, those senses get recorded in memories, and further distorted. For the tiny slice of events that get recorded in audio, video, contemporaneous notes, etc.; we have even better understanding. But those methods of capturing events still leave a lot out. You can hear the words, but not the thoughts. You can see the actions, but not the motivations. You can read the written diary, but there are no entries there for things considered irrelevant by the author.

There are untold numbers of events that occurred millennia ago that we know absolutely nothing about. But they contribute to how the world works today just the same. Long after the cause is lost to time, the effect chain keeps adding links.

Re: The past is not true

#218
post #86
post #72

There is a common conception that we don't know the future, but we know the past. In our heads, we have models of the past and models of the future. Sure, there is an asymmetry between knowing the past and the future - due to thermodynamics. Still, in both cases, it is good to think of these as probabilistic models, far from any certainty.

> there is an asymmetry between knowing the past and the future - due to thermodynamics Would you please elaborate on this?

It's physics-enthusiast for "time goes one way".

Re: The past is not true

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're wrong about historiography (and your highschool history teacher too). "History" is accounts (stories) about the past. "Historiography" isn't about the past; it's an account of how historians "do" history. I mean, historiography would include accounts of how past historians used to do history.

> I think you're wrong about historiography (and your highschool history teacher too). you're wrong about me being wrong. I remembered a little better now: "there is no history, the proper name of this subject is historiography" he taught us this but also, your reply suggests you missed the point (and my teacher's) that there is no history, it's all accounts by some "historian" I would use the name meta-history, or '…

Well, I said that history consists of accounts (stories).

I agree that what I (and most historians) call "historiography" could be called "meta-history". But that activity already has a name; we don't need to construct a new term (with a Greek prefix and a Latin suffix) to stand-in for a word that already works fine.

Historiography isn't some handwavey version of the past; it's the study of how historians do their work. That's the word historians use. Honestly, I think your history teacher got the wrong end of the stick.

Like, Humpty Dumpty had a point: you can use words to mean whatever you want. But it's not helpful for intelligent discourse to redefine commonly-understood terms.

Re: The past is not true

#220
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Spanish flu really was very bad but would not have killed as many people if it occurred today. Malnutrition might have been a factor (though today's obesity rate might also be a problem) but the bigger thing was lack of antibiotics. Flu almost never kills you directly- it's the bacterial pneumonia you develop on top of it that does. Without antibiotics back then there would have been little they could do

Bacterial Pneumonia was not the novel danger of the "Spanish" flu; They cytokine storm it caused in perfectly healthy people was horrifying, with perfectly healthy people who would normally fight off any flu dying from this one. A lot of young twenty somethings, strong people who were not malnourished died from it. Hell, people got cytokine storms from COVID-19 and we still can only treat it if we catch it really ear…

That's a hypothesis. It is known that (supposedly) that strain can cause cytokine storm more than other flus do. I would not assume that means cytokine storm was the primary cause of death or even the primary cause of death in young adults. Based on my experience my guess is that the pneumonia was a much bigger cause of death than the storm
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