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New York City will charge drivers going downtown

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211–220 of 700 posts

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#211
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Road user fees don't even cover half of the cost of roads let alone make up for all the negative externalities.

If we're complaining about the costs of negative externalities, are we also considering the value of the positive externalities?

The benefits are why people would pay the price of the negative externalities. If not deemed to be worthwhile, there are other means of transportation that have less negative externalities.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think about cities that have implemented taxes for disposable plastic bags. I find it somewhat hilarious how many people consider these policies to be anti-freedom government money-grabs. They make a libertarian's blood boil! > Even assuming those folks are correct, it doesn't really matter, because these taxes are incredibly effective. It's eye-opening to see how a nearly insignificant tax (literal pennies per b…

I never thought reducing emissions was the reason for trying to reduce disposable plastic bag usage, though I don't doubt many might believe it does.

The messaging I saw in NYC when the ban was coming in was all about carbon footprint. Do you think the reason is reducing plastic pollution? Because it went up in Australia after their plastic bag ban, since those plastic bags were replaced by heavier plastic bin liners:

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/plastic-bag-...

I think the "bailey" of plastic bag ban proponents is the sea life that gets stuck in plastic bags, but there is no way they would have gotten a ban passed on the back of the impact to sea life.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#213
Charging drivers for going downtown is effectively a thing in most cities everywhere due to parking. The only drivers not paying to go a downtown just about anywhere are ones just going for a cruise, without stopping to do any business for any length of time.

Here is a better idea: ban driving from downtown entirely, except for certain service vehicles.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#214

A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing more roads leaving NJ Transit with a maintenance backlog, inadequate infrastructure and unhappy workers who were poached by the MTA. This resulted in a mismatch where the infrastructure is designed to favor driving on one side of the river and a fee designed…

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A more charitable interpretation is people have suddenly been reminded that he exists and of what he did. I don’t think that anyone is getting paid to do propaganda against Republican primary candidates on Hacker News. That goes doubly so for candidates that have a functionally zero percent chance of winning (Christie knows that - he’s just there to attack Trump).

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm oblivious to them, but I don't think I've seen meters in Soho/Chinatown/LES and I definitely don't remember them in the East Village. Are they more in the Tribeca/Fidi area?

$4.50 for 1 hr, $12 for 2 hr street parking.

You can continue to buy in one hour increments to save a little too if you remember to keep checking the app.`

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, rich people do things for fun. Poor people struggle. It’s not a particularly deep or useful insight. What do you think should happen here instead since you’re so disappointed with the current plan? No charge for drivers going downtown? A dynamic charge based on social status/wealth?

> A dynamic charge based on social status/wealth? That's one I like actually, maybe something like the blue book value of the car? I recently moved out of NYC but I remember looking forward to the congestion charge because I loved taking my greyhound to the union square dog run, which was driving distance for me. 20$ wasn't enough to affect my plans to do that, and less traffic would actually make my life way easier…

> regressive tax

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#217

A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing more roads leaving NJ Transit with a maintenance backlog, inadequate infrastructure and unhappy workers who were poached by the MTA. This resulted in a mismatch where the infrastructure is designed to favor driving on one side of the river and a fee designed…

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I think it’s availability heuristic. There are lots of people I don’t criticize because they’re irrelevant. As soon as they make themselves relevant…they are opened up to both more enthusiasm and critique.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#218

A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing more roads leaving NJ Transit with a maintenance backlog, inadequate infrastructure and unhappy workers who were poached by the MTA. This resulted in a mismatch where the infrastructure is designed to favor driving on one side of the river and a fee designed…

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Talking about the decline of NJ Transit and the specific gubernatorial policies that led to it is relevant in a debate about congestion pricing. This would have been the case even if he was not a presidential candidate.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#219

For those unfamiliar with NYC, street parking is free basically everywhere so the space cars take up is already heavily subsidized.

This 100%. Free public parking in NYC is the elephant in the room that no one wants to address. Tolls won’t fix that. In some areas of the outer boroughs, 40% of the traffic at any given time are people looking for a spot. The city also still hasn’t figured out utilization of the curb for deliveries and drop offs resulting in normalized double-parking almost everywhere. Curb space need to be efficiently priced and th…

I anticipate the rollout of congestion pricing will wind up accelerating some changes to the way parking works: areas on the margins of the congestion zone will likely see a surplus of commuters looking to park where they can avoid the toll, which will have the effect of making proposals like paid resident parking permits much more palatable to car owners who currently oppose them.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#220
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did an internship at IBM Hawthorn so I’m familiar with parking in the city. It’s actually doable (or was doable?) in midtown near Columbia, and it actually made sense for my girlfriend at the time. The public transit system isn’t that great when you are commuting between West Chester county. And traffic in NYC is weird. Like, going into the city isn’t a problem, especially if you are going in at night. But take one…

Yeah, but - the proposed congestion charge is only below 60th, and Columbia is up around 116th and higher. Much much easier to park near Columbia. Maybe a little more risk of having your car stolen, too. :) Also (adding this a few minutes later), the evidence is clear that public transit is seriously beneficial for people with lower incomes - and the elderly and folks with disabilities that prevent them from driving.…

Again, I’m not against congestion charging, I’m against the thinking that most of the immediate downsides are born by the rich. It is politically naive to think like this given that plenty of people who are taking advantage of driving (for better or worse) are not people who would be considered rich. Actually it’s worse than that since rich people aren’t going to think much about a $5 or $10, $20 fee while poorer drivers definitely are.

As for it not encompassing midtown, that sounds a bit weird to me, but ok. I’m not sure it will have much impact on overall region traffic since most trips probably don’t involve that area in the first place.

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