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Rust: The wrong people are resigning

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Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#211

Post by twelfthnight »

Klonoar wrote: post #196
lolinder wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took it as referring to the world in general, not Rust specifically. It happens every day in the news that someone loudly resigns to make their point. It's much less common that you see an article about how so-and-so spent five years of their life working hard to change a culture from the inside and finally is seeing results.

You can certainly try to view it that way, but I would submit that, at best, you're being overly charitable regarding interpretation when the very thread we're on is centered on discussing issues within the Rust ecosystem itself.

lolinder is exactly right on what I meant to say (including what they said in the sibling post to this comment). But I hear your point, too, Klonoar. It's definitely worth pointing out that people can have good reasons for "going public" after realizing they couldn't fix things from the inside.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#213

Post by nomel »

gishbunker wrote: post #162
throwawaymaths wrote: post #6

> downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully Who would have suspected this was racially motivated? Not to defend any actions by anyone, but a keynote is an unusual place to talk about experimental feature a language is considering (unless it's a small component of a bigger update/forecast). That said once the decision was made they should have gone through with it.

If someone is in the minority, it's totally reasonable to ask, "could their minority status be a factor in their disenfranchisement?" Then you look at the data, and in this case come to the conclusion, "no, it was not a factor." That seems healthy and normal, it's not outrage bait to acknowledge that yes, sometimes minorities are at a disadvantage or are under represented. It's just as fallacious to say "of course ra…

> sometimes minorities are at a disadvantage or are under represented

What does “under represented” mean, in a small, hopefully merit based, org?

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#214

Post by johnny22 »

meindnoch wrote: post #206
sangnoir wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what end?

I'm not sure I understand the question... Because normally you'd want to discuss the work/actions of a human person, not an animated picture? :D

people have gone by pseudonyms for ages in the culture around hackers and computers generally. I don't see why we shouldn't do the same here.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#215

Post by jumpyjumps »

kristoff_it wrote: post #192

> Part of me is very disappointed at ThePrimeagen, the Twitch streamer / YouTuber with whom I used to be friendly, for milking those controversies for every view and sub possible. For riling up the masses, adding fuel to the fire, creating the exact opposite of the climate we need to solve these issues. Nobody wants to name the one guy who Secret Hitler'd the keynote, but man let's name call a streamer unaffiliated w…

The cynic in me thinks that shot from fasterthanlime is more to do with ThePrimeagen being the new React Andy in the same content creation space as him, scooping up views/subscriptions.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#216

Post by xiphias2 »

rustthrow wrote: post #3

> The recent incident with ThePHD’s keynote downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully, but… if that’s what it looks like from the outside, and any form of official communication is still days or weeks away, does it really make a difference? yes! it does! we can't keep framing everything as race, gender, or orientation related. people have to have basic filters for what the most important issue is in a situatio…

Maybe the downgrade not, but the original keynote was, but we can only guess. I don't think it's popular to vote against a black person being the keynote speaker.

At the same time this keynote is nowhere near as interesting as last year's async stabilization keynote, I think we can all agree on that.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#217

Post by FranksTV »

cookieperson wrote: post #15

Fasterthanlime is something like my spirit animal. Prolific and educational blogs that have challenged my knowledge with whimsy joy and catharsis. Also apparently emotionally intelligent and making the right moves here. Sometimes it's better to drop out and start something new. An unofficial convention would be fantastic. I'm sick of the clout chasing in these niche tech areas, it always drowns out the real passion a…

As it turns out, the qualities and skills that make someone an excellent systems programming language developer are completely orthogonal to the qualities and skills that make someone effective in governing a loose organization made up mostly of volunteers and subject to worldwide scrutiny.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#218

Post by FranksTV »

lucasyvas wrote: post #142
bluejekyll wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I was able to reassure myself, by checking these private discussion places, that there were good people, fighting for the right thing to be done. That things weren’t irremediably broken. That there was hope for improvement in the near future.” From the linked article, that probably makes it clear that they believe Rust Leadership screwed up, and probably represents why naming individuals might not be helpful, and co…

Naming individuals is the best solution because it will create the appropriate infighting to resolve the issue. It will be a huge mess, but it will come to resolution sooner.

I think you're underestimating the arbitrary cruelty of the internet. Naming people just paints a target on them.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#219

Post by toyg »

chippiewill wrote: post #88
throwawaymaths wrote: post #6

> downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully Who would have suspected this was racially motivated? Not to defend any actions by anyone, but a keynote is an unusual place to talk about experimental feature a language is considering (unless it's a small component of a bigger update/forecast). That said once the decision was made they should have gone through with it.

It's not that unusual. Herb Sutter's 2022 CppCon keynote was on a prototype redesign of the C++ syntax/language.

Yeah, and plenty of Python keynotes on umpteen projects to overcome the GIL - GIL that is still there.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#220

Post by DiggyJohnson »

bluejekyll wrote: post #126
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I absolutely think they should make that clear. But among all the reasons they made this decision, however opaque things have been thus far, I think it’s wrong to speculate that the cause is racism.

What are you vehemently disagreeing with me about then?

That race is a reasonable suspicion until barring further explanation/transparency. And additionally the “to be clear” refrain.
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