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Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

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Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#211

Post by bornfreddy »

hhh wrote: post #63
Animatronio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these really inconveniences? Most of the times I've had trouble paying for stuff were usually at supermarkets or gas stations where the credit card reader would refuse to acknowledge my card. Swiping/inserting/touching, not even cursing worked so without cash on hand I'd have had to surrender my ID to the clerk, take a cab to the closest ATM and return with cash.

Yes. I cannot stand cash, I hate carrying it, I hate coins, I don’t want to keep up with it. I leave my house with nothing but my phone and I’m good. I don’t have a wallet, and I don’t want one. I want efficient and secure digital currency, with easy interfaces between digital wallets. I pay for my lawn care via Cash App, most of the other small businesses have Square or something similar. If I need anonymous currenc…

Curious, do you use a tumbler or distributed exchange (not sure if this is the right term)? I always treated crypto as not-at-all-anonymous, so I'm curious how to achieve cash level of privacy with crypto. Any tips?

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#212

Post by b800h »

medler wrote: post #134
harimau777 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the government often creates crimes that citizens don't agree with. Or the majority uses the law to try to force their preferences on the minority.

So should everyone simply disregard any laws they disagree with, provided they can get away with it? Where does it end?

With laws being changed, unlike in totalitarian regimes.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#213

Post by red-iron-pine »

ricksebak wrote: post #186
cipheredStones wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't put your groceries on a credit card. ...huh? "Don't use store membership cards that track your specific purchases" is one thing, but in what world does your credit card processor get info about the individual goods on your receipt?

If you apply for a loan, especially a mortgage, the lender could ask to see your outgoing cash flow statements. Which wouldn’t get into receipt-level detail, but could still potentially allow the lender to discriminate against you. A person with habitual transactions at a casino or liquor store could be perceived as high risk and the lender could jack up the interest rate for that person. I have no clue if lenders _a…

They could, but for the vast majority of people they won't. Credit scores exist so that they don't have to.

Credit card company rolls up your behavior into a number, and passes that to a credit agency like Experian, and they pop a number out to anyone who asks.

No one is asking for outgoing transactions unless you're trying to buy a business or are getting a non-standard loan for something

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#214

Post by Aunche »

mc32 wrote: post #126
Seattle3503 wrote: post #13

My concerns about a cashless society are the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors. Look at what happened to Pornhub. Regardless of whether you think Pornhub was in the wrong, it is striking that a business was cut off from global financial system by a small number of credit card companies. This was done without due process and under no countries laws. That should scare us at least a little.

Also the threat to civil liberties was exposed in Canada when the government saw it fit to freeze people's bank accounts. I believe this is being reviewed and maybe something will come of it so that the gov is not allowed to cavalierly freeze accounts in the future, but you can see how even liberal people are ready to violate people's civil liberties when they see it fit. It's like principles are only followed when t…

Would you prefer if they ended the blockades through more forceful means, even if that would escalate into violence?

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#215

Post by tanseydavid »

atdrummond wrote: post #137
Groxx wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why that would be any different than credit card payments, which don't itemize every purchase either - they still know how much and to what seller, tracking a seller and banning them seems just as easy. What they don't get is the buyer's information. ...except for the time and place, with a device that almost certainly has cameras for theft deterrence. Which might be fine now, but seems pretty law-enforcemen…

CC certainly has the capability for extremely granular and personal details. For now, this is usually restricted to hotel stays and airline trips. But the tech exists to encode quite a bit of information about both sides of a transaction and its nature.

>> But the tech exists to encode quite a bit of information about both sides of a transaction and its nature.

Which has monetary value and thus will be monetized, sooner or later.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#216

Post by red-iron-pine »

AmenBreak wrote: post #114
raverbashing wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I swear money handling cost will be reduced by one simple thing that some countries like Canada and Ireland have done (and can be improved): ditch the smaller coin denominations (and maybe add higher denomination coins like $2 like EU and UK have) Anything under 10 cents gets rounded down/up accordingly It doesn't matter. Minting and transporting it, even in your pocket costs more than you'll ever get in dealing a mo…

That's an awful idea. Especially the "down/up" part.

They ditched pennies in Canada and round the cent. Works fine.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#217

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

arcticbull wrote: post #97
908B64B197 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors And the government. In Canada the government suspended the constitution (because that's a thing over there?) because of some peaceful, free-speech protected, protests in the capital and started arbitrary freezing protester's bank accounts. Of course, without any due process (remember, constitutional rights were suspended!).

Yep, and hat tip to the government for a job well done. There's a right and a wrong way to protest, they were given time to choose to do it right. Now that the threat is over and dispersed they're welcome to come back and protest peacefully. For an end to the vaccine mandates, that ended already. Silly sausages. For reference, the Emergencies Act doesn't 'suspend the constitution' it suspends certain Charter rights f…

Uhm, I dislike this weird defensiveness of newspeak. Does it suspend some rights available under normal circumstances? If yes, then it effectively suspends the constitution? Why does it feel like Simpsons nailed it so hard when Lisa proposed temporary refund adjustments and people cheered thrice out of sheer misunderstanding of the language used.

And all that before we get to the part whether giving government power to pinky swear give all that power back when invoked is kinda playing with fire on the scale comparable to Patriot Act.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#218

Post by arcticbull »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #217
arcticbull wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and hat tip to the government for a job well done. There's a right and a wrong way to protest, they were given time to choose to do it right. Now that the threat is over and dispersed they're welcome to come back and protest peacefully. For an end to the vaccine mandates, that ended already. Silly sausages. For reference, the Emergencies Act doesn't 'suspend the constitution' it suspends certain Charter rights f…

Uhm, I dislike this weird defensiveness of newspeak. Does it suspend some rights available under normal circumstances? If yes, then it effectively suspends the constitution? Why does it feel like Simpsons nailed it so hard when Lisa proposed temporary refund adjustments and people cheered thrice out of sheer misunderstanding of the language used. And all that before we get to the part whether giving government power…

The Emergencies Act and how it's applied are governed by the Charter. It's a function of government as defined under the Charter. It's not a suspension thereof. It's moving into a different mode of operation, sure, but the it's still all a defined function of that system.

As [1] states:

> Any temporary laws made under the act are subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Bill of Rights, and must have regard to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

In re:

> And all that before we get to the part whether giving government power to pinky swear give all that power back when invoked is kinda playing with fire on the scale comparable to Patriot Act.

Absolutely not how the Emergencies act is written or functions. In fact, once the emergency is over they're required by law to hold an inquiry on whether the action was justified in the first place.

Further, the invocation can be rolled back by the House of Commons, the Senate or the Governor General - or honestly probably the King (albeit risking a constitutional crisis) - at any time, and all the temporary laws expire.

This particular invocation was carried out under minority government meaning the invocation had to have the support of multiple political parties too, and risked calling an election. It also had the support of the Provincial Premiers of all political stripes.

It's nothing like the Patriot Act.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#219

Post by SoftTalker »

kernoble wrote: post #170
noduerme wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what are the main benefits of going fully cashless One piece of advice I got a long time ago, from a family member in politics: Don't put your groceries on a credit card. Especially if you buy junk food or alcohol. Obviously the same goes for bars, tobacco, strip clubs, gun purchases[0], and lots of other perfectly legal things that you might not want being counted up if you ever run for office. At the systemic lev…

Even with cash, you can't buy a plane ticket without handing over all your info. Which is a good thing! And, if I had to guess, the booking of hotel rooms probably has more to do with liability rather than tracking. There are plenty of ways of getting a roof over your head without using a credit card; though IMO they are likely a downgrade. While your statements resonate with me, it's a bit hyperbolic to say that ele…

> Even with cash, you can't buy a plane ticket without handing over all your info. Which is a good thing!

Why is that a good thing? You used to be able to walk into the airport, pay cash at the ticket counter for a ticket, and get on the plane. Compared to the fantastic level of nonsense we put up with today?

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#220

Post by tanseydavid »

asdff wrote: post #179
danpalmer wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might work but sending cash in the mail is a pretty terrible idea. Most postal services strongly discourage it, or you're using recorded services which are expensive and add all the same tracking issues.

Registered mail is insured up to $50,000 https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-are-the-Limits-for-Insur...

If you tell the USPS that you are sending cash, they will not accept it for delivery.

I found this out the hard way trying to overnight about $500 cash to a family member.

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