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Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

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Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#211

Post by flangola7 »

joecool1029 wrote: post #87
flangola7 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 is probably not legal. The onus is on a manufacturer to prove that the customer's changes caused damage sufficient to negate their warranty responsibilities.

When you buy a new car they have the VIN of the car and log any recall repairs done. So not sure how you think the same wouldn't be legal on a phone? Having a device in their database as NEVER_UNLOCKED takes away any onus from having to look for this in the first place for a large % of users. Additionally this is kind of important for a company that's had a history of selling devices with hardware defects. It'd be ve…

>Having a device in their database as NEVER_UNLOCKED takes away any onus from having to look for this in the first place for a large % of users.

Which court case are you citing?

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#212

Post by ehsankia »

JeremyNT wrote: post #132
jacooper wrote: post #99

Honestly be glad that google still allows bootloader unlocking. And the WiFi requirement is very small, and the article is overblowing it.

Yeah, the state of affairs with Google is better than any other mainstream vendor. It seems lame that you have to phone home to unlock a new device, but it's nothing compared to what they could be doing.

> It seems lame that you have to phone home to unlock a new device, but it's nothing compared to what they could be doing.

My guess is that it's protection against stolen hardware? They can basically ban S/N of stolen phones, and the thieves can't unlock the bootloader and resell the device.

But yeah, it seems like a reasonable thing. Out of all the vendors, Pixel phones are by far the easiest to unlcok, seems like a weird thing to complain about.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#213

Post by JeremyNT »

opan wrote: post #183
JeremyNT wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the state of affairs with Google is better than any other mainstream vendor. It seems lame that you have to phone home to unlock a new device, but it's nothing compared to what they could be doing.

OnePlus has no such restrictions that I've seen, from the One to the 8T. I haven't heard of them locking down newer ones either. You just run the usual command to unlock the bootloader, no funny business. I've run a custom ROM on all of them that I've owned.

One plus actually required an account to unlock the boot loader on one of the devices I owned. You had to log in and submit a request for unlocking.

Perhaps they aren't all this onerous, but that really put me off of them.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#214

Post by [deleted] »

jvanderbot wrote: post #80
ouid wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet is not a thing you connect to, what you must actually do is register your intent to disable the bootloader with an adversarially controlled server, and that server must respond with a yes.

If the root comment is to be believed, this (connecting via the internet to Google's servers), is required to provide additional security. I'm just taking that as true and deciding that connecting to the provider of my phone's hardware and software _once_ as a purchaser of their hardware, is fine for me. I also imagine it's not too burdensome for others. Scenarios in which that's not possible are hypothetical (disast…

[deleted]

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#215

Post by saagarjha »

dingledork69 wrote: post #86
pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

So google is going through all this effort and some guy in China will just bypass the bootloader lock for $30. There is absolutely no way that the intelligence agencies don't have this same capability, which makes all of this security posturing utterly pointless, other than to prevent regular users from owning their devices.

Intelligence agencies probably do have these capabilities. There’s a massive difference between them having it and “some guy in China”. These kinds of things are pretty expensive and nobody is going to sell you the capability for $30, unless it’s just meant to be a carrier lock rather than a security feature.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#216

Post by Etrnl_President »

pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

Verizon usually unlocks the bootloader for you after the phone's real cost has been covered by your monthly bills.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#217

Post by saagarjha »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #135
judge2020 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A different SKU for enterprise managed devices would cripple IT departments that don't pay the big bucks to e.g. verizon to manage their device provisioning & MDM enrollment.

Has it occurred to you that the feature you're defending allows Google to lock customers into their provisioning/MDM? That this is worse than Verizon controlling provisioning/MDM, because at least Verizon is subject to market competition (ie you can buy the device from other parties), whereas Google doing it means you have no choice whatsoever? You're also grossly exaggerating things. We're not talking about a change…

Customers as in people who buy Pixel phones? Why would Google try to lock those people into MDM?

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#218

Post by saagarjha »

r00tanon wrote: post #131
justsomehnguy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is bad because the vendor might Because the vendor can anytime say 'fuck you' and disable/remove the process which allows unlocking the bootloader. Edit: already happened with Pixel 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35854552

So anyone who has already unlocked their Pixel 2 is good to go right? Getting the latest Pixel unlocked requires an internet connection, but once done it's done. So the complaint is that in the far future the vendor might not support that on a six year old phone (by that time)? But, it is supported now, so what's the beef? My old Pixel 2 only works now plugged into power and on WIFI because the battery is dead. I can…

I mean, not being able to unlock your Pixel 2 is a pretty legitimate concern.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#219

Post by saagarjha »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #141
zeagle wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked my Samsung phones but after the a couple of them went end of life despite being very usable I am never buying one of their devices again and sticking with Pixel. There should be an Android code of ethics or regulation to unlock bootloaders of these devices when discontinued to minimize eWaste.

Why on earth would Google institute a policy that runs completely contrary to the cell phone industry's business model, making their devices as useless as possible as fast as possible? It always cracked me up that Apple gets bashed for planned obsolescence when they support their phones longer than anyone else in the industry.

Apple will never unlock your bootloader though?

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#220

Post by saagarjha »

nfriedly wrote: post #206
azalemeth wrote: post #118

If I wanted to buy a new phone that I could root, install a custom ROM on, and use without voiding the warranty, what's the current best bet? One Plus used to be pretty good, but they've gone down in freedoms and up in price. Samsung are an obvious no. The entire design of the iPhone is specifically aimed at keeping the user out of it. Linux phones aren't usable yet. The shop on the /e/ foundation website seems to be…

Motorola has an automated process where you send them the phone serial number or something like that and they'll send you back a code that can be used to unlock the bootloader. I'm on a Moto g100 that I bought last year, originally intending for it to be a temporary phone while I found a flagship that I actually liked, but it's really grown on me. It has most of the features I was looking for, in particular official…

Is this better than Pixel’s process? Seems like it’s basically the same thing since you need to send them your device details over the internet?
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